Presenting to you, Kajal P. Moosa, devoted teacher, passionate dancer, spirited performer, dynamic anchor, and fashion model & last but not the least, the Head of Kindergarten section, Rajagiri Public School, Doha, Qatar.

For Kajal, teaching is her life’s passion. From an early age, all she dreamt of was being a teacher and for the last two decades, she has been instructing and guiding thousands of children through the successful completion from kindergarten to move on to higher grades. Kajal’s schooling mindset is that every kid should be familiarised with the instruments they need to demonstrate their own learning style. She also leaves plenty of room to celebrate the students’ imaginations with activities and hands-on experiences. Kajal has been the Head of Kindergarten for the last seven years.

Join us in conversation with Kajal P. Moosa. Let’s discover together her journey into the world of education. Let’s find out what made her the woman she is today. 

A conversation with Chippy & Kajal P. Moosa,
Head of Kindergarten, Rajagiri Public School, Doha, Qatar.

Chippy————	Hey Kajal, Happy New Year. How is the new year treating you?
Kajal	It has been so busy since the new year. I don’t know what to say. I have had my mom and brother visit me, which is always a happy time. And I am sure it’s definitely going to be a year full of surprises.
Chippy	Great to know you had a good start. Let’s dive in. Who is Kajal today?
Kajal	A difficult question, nonetheless an excellent question to start with. First, let me just say it out loud, I’m content with my life. I feel that now I have become a responsible person. At this point in my life, I know I influence people, especially colleagues, and family.  I’m also a person who enjoys being loved and to be loved.
Chippy	And professionally, how would you say who you are?
Kajal	Professionally, I reached what I dreamt of what I wanted to be. I had many dreams, my first dream was to become a teacher, and my passion was dance. Today I can say, I am a teacher, a mentor,  a dancer, a student, occasional model and anchor. I have many hats that I pull off.
Chippy	You said you had many dreams.
Kajal	Yeah, a few. At the beginning, I wished to be a teacher. I used to imitate being a teacher wearing a sari, a handbag on the shoulder with a red pen in hand and taking out our old notebooks and markings and correcting. I can confidently say I always wished to be a teacher. That was my first dream, though it changed a lot afterwards. During fifth or sixth grade, I thought of becoming a lawyer. Then, I don’t know whether you remember Chippy, during eighth or ninth grade, I had a diary, where I used to do a lot of designing. So that time I wish to become a fashion designer. Later there  was a time when MBA was very popular, so I wish to pursue MBA. So it kept changing every now and then.
Chippy	And dance?  Did you learn dance professionally? Who was your guru?
Kajal	90% I can say I studied on my own because I belong to a minority group and there were a lot of restrictions to learning dance, which is against our rules. So it was extremely difficult to learn privately. But in school, I got a lot of opportunities. My teachers at school recognised my talent, and I got a lot of opportunities there.  When I advanced to college I found out that I love doing choreography. After a few events, I was amazed and said to myself, ‘Oh my God, I did this’. I felt proud of my work and I for the first time felt I have a talent. . Yeah, it was you know, that opportunity, whatever it is. I took it as a challenge and made it work for me. My family supported me, especially my mom. Only because of that I did it.

Chippy————	After school…
Kajal	I completed two years of Pre- Degree and later three years of Bachelor of Arts in History.
Chippy	During these five years, you were involved in all major and minor cultural events  and competitions on behalf of your college. Tell me more about that.
Kajal	Oh Yeah, I still remember my first dance. It was the pre-degree freshers Day event held at AVM Hall in UC college Aluva. I was nervous, confused, and tensed about how the audience would react. When I was at the back stage I heard  shouting, howling, for other programs before my scheduled slot. So I was expecting the same when my turn came. As soon as I walked on stage, I felt complete silence. Music was on and I danced to my heart’s content and I sensed the same from my audience, they clapped along with my beats and at the end, I heard the whole hall cheering for me, I can still hear the applause I got that day. It was unbelievable to me. I was literally in tears. My classmates, batch-mates, seniors, teachers, everyone appreciated my performance  and that was the beginning of my dance life and choreography for the next five years. I didn’t turn back. Dance groups, drama groups, and many arts groups started reaching out to me, they invited me to different programs. And I started choreographing and later entered university competitions. Thinking about those moments still gives me goosebumps.
Chippy	You got married early. How did that change your course of life?
Kajal	I belong to a traditional family, and they reckon getting married early is very significant. But my family promised me marriage solely after my graduation. But suddenly, this marriage proposal came. And my father told me, ‘Kajal, let them come. You don’t have to commit to anything. Meet. the man, talk to him, and you decide.’ I said okay. I was very excited and also nervous at the same time. One day they came to meet me, and all I remember is dressing up, walking towards a man with a tray serving tea. We were allowed to speak to each other for fifteen minutes. And that changed me. Of course, we cannot understand a person in five to ten minutes, but somehow I felt he was the right man for me. I did sense I would be safe with him.
Chippy	What was so special about him?
Kajal	Shan. He was different. His thinking deck was different, not like any other person I have met. Yeah, from that chat itself, I understood his reflections on matters were diverse. I come from a family where everyone was doing business. I require somebody who comes from a family who gives importance to education. He was educated, an aeronautical engineer by profession. During our conversation, we agreed on completing my studies, he was encouraging and that made it easy for me to make a decision.  I said yes to my father and they fixed the dates and we got engaged and then married.
Chippy	Up until now, you have lived all your life in a small town in Kerala. You had to move away, far away from everything you know and understand, your family, friends and places you are familiar with. How did this affect you?
Kajal	That’s true. Completely. I finished my graduation after marriage. And in 2001, moved to Qatar to be with my husband. New beginning with Shan. I was excited about the new phase of my life. Shan’s sisters were settled in Qatar, so it was very easy for me. When I arrived, they welcomed me warmly. So it was a very smooth transition. And within two weeks, I found myself working. I joined as a teacher in a school here.
Chippy	Just like that. That’s incredible. How did you land the job?
Kajal	After my arrival, I heard of a school that just opened its door a few months back. I approached the Principal and told him, ‘I just landed from India. I completed my graduation, I just finished my exam and I’m here. I need a job.’ The fact  was that I didn’t know much about anything. Yeah, that’s the truth. Because of that I was very confident. I felt that I’m good. So I just approached the Principal. First, the principal was impressed with me and as I showed my cultural certificates, he said, ‘we have a vacancy in a Kindergarten. I want you also to take part in cultural activities for the school’. I was waiting for an opportunity to teach somebody to perform. And I joined as a Kindergarten Teacher there. You know, I was Bindass. That’s how I landed my first job.
Chippy	That’s impressive. Sheer confidence.
Kajal	During my tenure with the school, I was very active organizing, choreographing, and putting up shows for the school and that clicked very well. So from the beginning, I got a name for myself at school. So yeah, that was the beginning of my career as such, without any Kindergarten qualification, I joined and I completed one year at Shantiniketan School in Qatar.

Chippy————	Your dream of becoming a teacher is now a reality. What was it like the first time walking into a classroom?
Kajal	I do not have any qualifications as a Kindergarten Teacher. So when I entered the class, I saw a lot of tiny faces. I said to myself, ‘my God, I’m going to teach these small little kids! It’s really happening.’ And then one month passed, I really understood how to tackle, handle and be good with kids, how to take care of them, and how to teach them. And slowly I understood that of course, this is my passion more than anything else. I was certain, I chose the right profession. So, without knowing how to teach, I started teaching. Like that I completed one year. By the time I was pregnant with my first child.
Chippy	Being a mother is a blessing.
Kajal	Of course, I was thrilled. I had to resign from my position as my morning sickness was getting worse. After resigning I went back to India. After my delivery, I came back with my baby, Nargis. Shan’s sister had a play school so they took care of her when I went to work. So I was blessed to have a family around who was there to support me. We were close, we were neighbors. So it was very easy for me to just give my baby girl and go to work. I could not have done it without my extended family’s support, timely help and care. Above all Shan was understanding and he accepted my potential and supported me everytime.
Chippy	That was awesome. So now what’s ahead for you?
Kajal	Two months after my girl Nargis was born, I started applying for jobs. I tried in one of the top schools in Qatar. Again, it was a shock for me,as I didn’t have much experience and qualification. They called me for the interview and  were very impressed. And there they told me to do a small performance. All really wanted to see my performance rather than my teaching. So they were really impressed and got my offer letter to join. It was a dream to join MES. There I saw my career and my tasks had come to a different level. Because lots and lots of associations were connected with the new school. And in my previous school, there were only 500 students. The new one had more than 10,000 students.
Chippy	It’s more like a university.
Kajal	Yeah, MES School, it was the biggest. In kindergarten itself we had nearly 1000 kids. First year, I was just a Kindergarten Teacher.I was not into any other programs,but I was waiting for the right time. However, I got an opportunity to show my talent during our Teacher’s day. It was a solid performance of mine and I performed in front of 600 teachers and Management members. Again, things changed from there. Mr. Majeed who was the Programme Coordinator for the whole school was impressed with my performance, after the event he came over and congratulated me.  After that event we collaborated and worked on many events, programs  with lots of associations as well. He was a guiding star and according to his wish,  his theme, and a lot of thematic programs we did together inside and outside school, I was mainly given the responsibility of choreography. From there I went to a next level of exploring my talents, especially in my dance career. I also became the Cultural In-charge of the school.
Chippy	In MES, you were there for seven years and then you shifted.
Kajal	Things started changing slowly. As I got a lot of recognition over there, internal politics started playing a part and I was not able to be myself. Management, they were the best, always supportive of  my ventures.  Lot of politics and a lot of ego issues all came up. And I really thought that it’s time to move on, rather than making things complicated, I was at MES Indian School for seven years, one of the biggest schools and the oldest schools of Qatar. I am glad I worked there. Fond memories.
Chippy	So you decided to move…
Kajal	I thought of having some international experience and wanted to join an International school. Though I got a chance to teach, I didn’t continue there because my cultural activities got stagnant , did not have any space there. I came from a place where we had the opportunity to celebrate every festival and event, but in International schools, we have a lot of limitations.I realized that it’s not the right place for a person like me because I’m a person who really wants to explore and share my talents. I find happiness in dance. I want to teach the children dance. I have to involve myself, but at international school I didn’t get that opportunity. So I decided to leave from there. Then of course Indian schools are always waiting for me. I know that. Then again, I changed to another Indian school. I got an irresistible offer and joined the same school as my daughter as a Kindergarten Teacher.
Chippy	So change again…
Kajal	In Birla Public school I worked for 5 years in Kindergarten. I was happy there. I got enough time to associate with other organizations and I was happy so life was going smoothly over there. And all were happy with my teaching style. During my tenure there, I made sure I  completed my Early Childhood Education Course. By this time it was becoming mandatory for Kindergarten educators to be qualified. Now, I have not only the experience but also the qualification. I also got certified from other international institutes for Pre-school Administration and also Child Psychology.
Chippy	Where did life take you from there?
Kajal	Yes, I was there for 5 years. I had a great time there,  all were happy with my teaching, my work. All the parents were supportive, the Management was also supportive.
Chippy	I see a but coming…..
Kajal	No buts, truth be told, a new opportunity knocked. One of my dear friends and colleague Ms Reshmi, she called  me aside and said, ‘Kajal, Rajagiri school is opening in Qatar, are you interested in being a Head and Coordinator for Kindergarten?’ My colleague was approached by a management consultant seeking a capable person who can be the Kindergarten Head for a new school and she suggested my name.I was first shocked and then overwhelmed and replied to her, “ how come you suggested my name?” She said, ‘Why not you, Kajal? You’re very capable for the role. Why can’t you do it?’ And I thought to myself, really, ‘am I capable of such a position, it’s a huge responsibility?’ Again, I applied, I was called for an interview. After three rounds of interviews, I was selected as the Head for Kindergarten at Rajagiri. And here I am. Now I’ve completed seven years and counting.
Chippy	Before you took charge of this role, you just had another baby. Right?
Kajal	Nargis was looking for a sibling since she was eight years old. Shan and myself felt she was lonely at home as we both have our own work. As a teacher, at home I had to set for the next day, have to plan for the next day and we have to bring work home all the time, it happens. It is not a 7:00 AM to 2:30 PM job. A teaching job is a 24 hour job. That is the only drawback I feel. So for Nargis, a sibling was essential. It was not as easy as we anticipated, the first one happened as we planned, for the second one, it took us a while to conceive. Six months after my second baby girl was born I joined as the Head of Kindergarten.

Chippy————	Were there many naysayers?
Kajal	I knew it would be a challenge. I knew it. My strength was, I have a 100% supportive husband with me. Then why should I not take it? When I discussed this offer with Shan, he said, ‘Kajal, this is the chance of a lifetime. We have done well with Nargis, we managed then and why is it that we won’t be able to do it again?’I joined as the Head of Kindergarten, Rajagiri School Qatar when my younger one was just six months old. I still remember when I resigned and was joining the new school, a certain person who told me off. He said, ‘Kajal you have a small baby, how are you going to manage as a KG head because it’s a demanding role, you have to spend a lot of time, morning till evening, at school, at home and you will not be able to cope and manage it all. You will be neglecting your child’. The air was strong with people who were objecting to my new move. I did start doubting myself for sometime but back of my mind I thought ‘oh my God is it that much difficult? But still I don’t want to miss that opportunity. I am going to give it my best.’
Chippy	As the head, you must have had to start from the scratch, set the system bottom up, build the work-culture, ethics and standards.
Kajal	As it was a new school, I had a part to play in the setting up to settling the teachers, the parents and above all our children. I woke up at four o’clock everyday. I have to cook, pack things for everyone and myself, and drop off my kids to the playhouse and reach my school by 6:30 AM. I have to reach my school early, as the kids start coming in by then and I only get to leave when all my kids are sent home. I have to plan lesson plans, curriculums, activities, cultural events, teachers meetings, attend school meetings, management meetings, parent meetings, and councils and what not. The first few years were hard but now I have brought it to a level where we run smoothly. I managed and I did it. Now I’m much relaxed because the system is in order. Those who are joining only have to follow the process that is set. So now it is much easier for me. I don’t have that much stress, you know, stress to do a lot of things, as I already have made the process and it works.
Chippy	If you count from 2001, the time you moved to Qatar, you can say 20 years of teaching experience. Without either experience or qualification you started and you now hold the title Head of the Department of Kindergarten, it’s now over two decades.
Kajal	When you say in years, yes over twenty one years now. Wow!
Chippy	All these years you concentrated on Kindergarten. Did you ever think you have to change or move away from Kindergarten?
Kajal	No, never once have I ever thought of moving away from where I am. Also I believe, when you are concentrating on one area, you can grow faster. I just gelled into Kindergarten. I always feel I was born to be here. That’s what I felt when I was teaching in the kindergarten, that for me it is very easy to bond with the kindergarten children, you know, they are innocent and at the same time extremely smart. So I observe them and learn from them too. I do tell the teachers, while you teach them, you also may get to learn new things from them. So, watch out and let all of us grow by learning from each other.
Chippy	You have found your happy place.
Kajal	Actually, a lot of happiness when I go to school, and when I’m dealing with the children, you know, that is the happiest moment nowadays, I’m getting from my life. Chippy, especially after the pandemic, now school has started. I feel so good, you know, seeing my kids, the small bundle of joy. And when I enter the class, when they wish me, when they come and hug me and I feel so good. I feel that I am for children, especially Kindergarten. So when I had experience only in that area, I decided better to go for early childhood education and qualify in that area. And I can completely focus on that.
Chippy	Wonderful to know. So during the COVID time, how did you manage nearly two years?
Kajal	It was a challenge and things changed a lot. I didn’t know that education can change in this way. The videos, the cameras, replacing the teachers! It was a drastic change in education. But I believe especially in Kindergarten, without having Teachers’ touch it is not helpful or possible for kids to learn, especially what I have seen after two years when children started coming back to school, they don’t have the social skills, they don’t have fine motor development. A lot of children have speaking disabilities. We have to bring the children back to their normal life. We are trying that.There were a lot of limitations in online classes, we really understood coming to school is very important, especially Kindergarten.
Chippy	Every time, every path you chose, every change you made in regards to a new school, or at schools, you actually wanted to grow and develop yourself.
Kajal	True, we learn as we grow and we grow only when we learn. As we move in life, we come across many people, situations, circumstances and these mould us and make us who we are. We pick up the best traits to follow and when we make mistakes, we learn from them and rebuke ourselves to never repeat them again. So we learn every single day as we go.
Chippy	Initially you must have learned on your own  but as you progress you must have looked up to someone. Who inspired you?
Kajal	The person who truly inspired me is Ms Shruti Chauhan. She was my mentor, I can say, I really love the way she handled matters, how she tackled issues with kids, the parents and the school internal and external. I learned a lot more from her than from any previous experiences. With Ms. Chauhan I could go and talk to her about anything. Right from my change in attitude, teaching style and methodology, I grasped from her. Her guidance was most needed and it shaped me to be the person I am today.

Chippy————	As a young girl you were denied dance lessons. You learned what you can from your school, you could not train professionally. Is that the only dream that has not happened so far?
Kajal	Chippy, all my dreams came true. So what I dreamt during my childhood, I’m doing now. I am a teacher and now I’m learning dance, classical dance, professionally, under Kalamandalam Sini at Abhinaya. My daughter Nargis is her student and I used to initially accompany her, and later became her student. Abhinaya organises programs, so I got opportunities through the dance school to perform Bharatanatyam and Mohiniyattam. It’s now five years since I started learning classical dance. Dreams are all happening. Everyday when I dance I feel that I have just started. I have to do more. I have not reached anywhere, especially in the field of dance. I have to do more. I want to grow more in this area, that’s my passion and I want to do more.
Chippy	Am so proud to know you Kajal. You are a go-getter. I think people don’t realize the effort that you have to put in. They see you and they see you as a very successful person, but they don’t know the effort that you had to put in and the trials you go through.
Kajal	I know. It’s not easy. Lot of struggle was there in between. Especially after graduation and when I came here I had a problem with my language. I had a problem with mingling with a new culture. I got a lot of humiliation at the beginning because of the way I dress, talk and interact. But from everywhere I learned to make myself better and never shy away from any feedback. Initially I used to cry and go to Shan and complain, they made fun of my accent, they could not understand me, they made fun of me, he said, ‘don’t let someone bother you’. That’s what I learned and I got more confident that I have to get over it. And I cannot go to the next step, if I start taking everything personally, so I stopped.
Chippy	How different is Kajal from 2001 to 2022 Kajal?
Kajal	My attitude is different. My dressing style is different. I am more confident now, I know how to deal and answer when someone insults me or talks in a manner not acceptable. I know better now.I have changed. I cannot change anyone, but I have learned to manage how I react. I’m 100% confident that I can go anywhere, or talk to anyone. My experience changed me for the better. I know how to deal with anything now and I know what to ignore.
Chippy	Sounds like a person who is responsible. In the beginning you said you are a responsible person, you know, responsible for not just yourself but for others too.
Kajal	I am responsible, especially as I now am the Head of the Department. I have to deal with a lot of matters, I am a woman who should at times be a sister, mother, friend, parent, father, brother, and more, many hats to pull off in my position. I have many responsibilities towards my school and students, and I have to also take care of my teachers. They have come far away from their home with a lot of personal, professional, or financial issues. I am a person who will lend an ear at times to those who want to unburden themselves from their everyday stress. They have an attachment with me where they can talk to me, they know I cannot help them but me hearing them out is all they want at times. Then there are those who look up to me, to be their mentor. So I have to be responsible.
Chippy	Wow. That’s intense. I’m so proud of you.
Kajal	Anyway, it all happened only because of Shan, his entry into my life changed the trajectory of my world. I am proud of the man he is and my husband, I call him with pride. I am not diminishing my hard work here, 100% credit goes to Shan, for not just being supportive, but for having my back in everything I do. Be it my teaching career, be it my passion for dance, anchoring, modeling, he is happy with everything I do. I am the highlight of his life and Shan mine’s. I am glad we had that fifteen minutes of chat years back.

Chippy————	That’s a good one. One last question. What Would You Tell Your 18 Year Old Self?
Kajal	I will tell my 18-year-old self, ‘you will blossom into a wonderful woman. Your life is for today. Plan your future but don’t stress about it. Love yourself. Keep in mind, you may not be everyone’s cup of tea and know it’s ok. Do not bother about what others think of you. Enjoy and cherish every second of your day. Life is too short to overthink’.”
Chippy	Thank you Kajal for a wonderful chat. I cannot thank you enough. And it is my privilege to be part of your life. Keep going and keep rocking.
Kajal	Chippy, it was indeed a pleasure and you made me go back to places I have never travelled for a while. There is so much more to say, we will keep it for next time. Till next time.

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Introducing to you a single mother and a survivor, Sakhy Francis.

This is the un-imaginable story of Sakhy Francis, a small-town girl from South India who lived in a bubble arranged for her. Growing up in a cocoon, she never had any purpose for life or was never shown the world beyond her shell. Sakhy never knew she could have dreams of her own. 

As she came out of her pod, she had to face the real world unprepared. While navigating the murky waters by herself, some people constantly reminded her, ‘you will never make it.’ Yet, she gradually learned that she had the power to make her own choices in life. Eventually, she decided to take control of her life, make her choices, and build her future. Sakhy held on to her dignity and conviction and never listened to naysayers. 

Life took Sakhy through some rough spins. Tests after tests, trials after trials, she battled her way to make a life for herself. She suffered through an unfathomable amount of pain, encountering a revolving door of struggles. It is beyond anything one can grasp. Through it all Sakhy’s resilience, courage, and identity remained unbroken. Find out what determination and perseverance can take you in life. Sakhy is a true survivor.

Presenting the riveting true story, the implausible tale of endurance, losses and successes, tribulations, and hope. We are in a lengthy conversation with Sakhy Francis from Vancouver, Canada.

A conversation with Chippy & Sakhy Francis,
Administrative Professional, Vancouver, Canada. 

CKC ———	How are you? How is life?
SP	Good. Lots of challenges, lots of happiness. Lots of activities & actions and thoughts & tasks to deal with. Overall life is good.
CKC	Last time we met was in 2012, just before you migrated to Canada.
SP	Oh! Lots have happened before and after that. I am glad we are having this chat. I am here to share my story of life, not my professional journey.
CKC	Where would you like to start?
SP	It starts where I was born. Earliest I can remember is my school days in Kerala, South India. My dad passed away a few weeks before my third birthday. Every first day of school was a challenge and every time I had to do a self-introduction, it was dreadful. Those were the saddest days of my life when I had to stand in front of the whole class and say, ’I am Sakhy, my mother is a housewife and my father passed away.’  School days, I was shy and I believe I lived in a bubble made for me by someone.
CKC	I am sorry you had to go through this at such a tender age.
SP	It was like a nightmare. It’s also because I missed him a lot. And another fact was I didn’t want that to define me. But those days, I didn’t know I could do that, I was always labeled the ‘the girl whose father passed away when she was three.’ For the same reason, I also got much love from my family and all the people who knew my father. He was a social person and everyone loved him and everyone always said the best about him, so I was missing him a lot and that made me sad as well.
CKC	After school, where did Sakhy land up?
SP	My life up till now revolved around my home, my school, my family, my school friends and church. It was a small bubble that I was allowed to live in. I enjoyed it. I never knew anything more than this bubble. My life was managed by my family and I just went with the flow. I didn’t know what I wanted, I loved Math and had good grades, so I majored in Mathematics. After grade 10, two years of Pre University, it was similar to grade 11 and 12. My first time away from home, a huge college, living in a hostel, making friends, having roommates my age, slowly, I started to know myself. These were the first time I was on my own, a little bit of independence I felt to be myself, this time away gave me a feeling that I could do things on my own. Growing up, I was never allowed to do anything, so it was my freedom to be me, when in college.
CKC	How did you evolve as a person?
SP	College gave me a lot of confidence. I started to talk to people. Gave me the courage to face people, manage situations and it took the fear out of me. I discovered I had leadership qualities. There are leaders who stand up and lead but I am the one who lives with the people and leads and moves them. You won’t see me in front but I am around everyone.  It was a push from my friends that time that led me to contest the Pre University Representative election in college. That time I thought to myself, ‘I don’t have any talents.’ I was sure I was not going to win but my speech during the ‘meet the candidate’ challenge changed my outlook as a person for myself and my fellow mates, I won the election with a great margin. I have never spoken to a crowd of 10 people let alone a packed venue of thousands of girls. It was nerve-racking. This win helped me to discover more of my capabilities as a person. First time in my life I felt proud of my achievement.  I started sharing with others and talking about my thoughts and feelings, emotions instead of keeping them bottled up. These two years gave me an opportunity to know myself and to be myself. This was an ice breaker in my life for me to start from where I was. It was my start to know me. Mine was a women’s college, it was better for me at that time. I like it because I got the experience but I didn’t want to do it later.
CKC	So time for undergraduate studies.
SP	Yes, after 12th grade, I moved back home and enrolled in a university closer. It was a challenge however, the new campus gave me exposure to a different world. You come from a women’s college to a male-dominated campus. Initial days the treatment towards freshers was cold and rough but I was not scared, and during that period slowly I got to know myself more. Again, like pre-university, I didn’t know what I wanted to learn, so I was not focused at all. I love Math, so I did B.Sc Mathematics nothing was planned. I also enrolled in a computer course along with my studies. When I graduated, I had a B.Sc Mathematics degree and Postgraduate Diploma in Computer Applications (PGDCA) to my credit. The computer course was something new and, when I got the opportunity, I took it. That was a good asset later on in life.
CKC	What next did you start to look for a job now or planned for post graduation?
SP	Now that you asked, I liked to be around people. I didn’t have anything particular other than people skills. I never had any aspirations for the future, for myself and I never knew I could aspire. Growing up I never even thought I would go to work, I was trained to be thinking that ‘I will be a wife, a homemaker, child bearer’ and I didn’t have any complaints. I thought that was perfect. My family was overprotective, that was good and also bad at the same time. It took me a while to understand, I was just going with the flow. I was still in a bubble. I never had any dream or aspiration, my life was all my family, home and that was it.  Education-wise even though I was not focused I was kind of gathering some which were good for the future. During this time, I never had any ambition or a feeling that I have to work. Simply because at home all I could hear from everyone was, ‘we are waiting for you to grow up and get you married off.’ So this was implanted in my head that you are going to get married and that’s all about it.
CKC	Education was NOT important, marriage was the main agenda. Were there not many women who worked in your home?
SP	Yes, I heard this in my family. The only person who worked was my grandma, she was a teacher. My mother used to say that she never liked her mother going to work. The person I looked up to was my grandma, she is the strongest person I have ever seen. The capacity she had to run the family and go to work, she was the strongest person as a homemaker and a teacher, she would do what she liked to do and nothing would stop her from what she wanted. So, even though I didn’t have any ambition, one thing I always wanted was her strength and power, and to be something like her.
CKC	So now this means someone is finding you a groom.
SP	Yes. After graduation, time to get married. So before that happened I thought I would go visit a family in Bangalore, stay with them, and have a few great months before any marriage or something like that happened. So I went to learn cooking, learn the ways of being a homemaker.  During this visit, one of my uncle’s friends visited and he casually asked, ‘what are you doing?’ I said, ‘all set, I have my degree and now a computer certificate, nothing ahead of me, I am just enjoying life. Going with the flow.’  He said, ‘Our company is hiring. Are you interested?’ I was slow in understanding what a job meant to me, ‘that means I can stay here’, I thought to myself. I accepted the offer, went for the interview and I got the job. Now the question is how would I convince my family back home. I could not convince but was told, ‘it will be good to have a job until we find a good proposal for you.’ That’s how I landed my first job.

CKC ———	So you never aspired to work, now you have a job.
SP	Yes, and within six months my marriage was fixed. Jojo was a South Indian whose family was settled in Bangalore. Ours was an arranged marriage. Goes without saying. He worked on the ship for a firm based in the US, which means he would be stationed abroad for six months and would be home for two months and again back to work and on and on. In 2001 I started my life as a married woman. At 21, I don’t think I was ready to take up the responsibilities of marriage. If you are starting a life together it is different. Jojo was never there. It was hard initially and then going with the flow, I accepted this as normal. Once I got married the feeling I had was that even though I had the independence and could do anything I wanted I didn’t have a marriage.
CKC	Why do you say that?
SP	You have to remember Chippy, I have never done anything in my life on my own. From buying necessary items to anything you say, I have never done that in my life. Everything was done for me, I never had to do anything. The bubble I lived in was dangerous. I didn’t even know where rice came from. I was shielded and was protected so much that I didn’t even have to go anywhere to buy anything. Even with the job I had, I was dropped off and picked up. Protected for what? I still don’t know. My husband left two weeks after marriage. He left the car and said now on you take care of everything here. The funny fact is I have never done grocery shopping in my life, that much cocooned was my life and I just was not equipped to take care of myself and now I am responsible for a new family and I have to learn and do all by myself. I didn’t have a clue what I was supposed to do, I didn’t even have a driver’s license, he said, ‘there is the car, there is the house and I will come in six months.’
CKC	How was married life?
SP	Nothing like what I was told or heard of. I had all the liberty, freedom, and independence but I was not able to become me. I set up the house, made the house a home. Jojo was a good man, a good person, a good human, he was also someone who called once a week to catch up on things. We talk for half an hour or an hour. I would talk about what’s happening, what I did, my job and it was always just talking, and he would ask me, ‘did you buy that? Did you do that?’ When he visits, he would stay for two weeks or a maximum, a month and leave. This was the pattern for over a year. We were married, however, we were never with each other, it was not a good feeling. It was a challenge.
CKC	Did you have any expectations in marriage?
SP	I did not have any expectations but I thought these things are not hard to get. I wanted a large family with loads of members and to be a part of that family. I was married but I felt alone as Jojo was never around. I was not able to be part of anything. The constant questions and male gaze from people gave me chills. It is hard to explain. Remember in our marriage I had all the freedom but did not know how to use it. I did not have the strength to do things on my own. I felt lonely all those days. I wanted to have a marriage where my Jojo was with me, a marriage where we did everything together as a couple. I didn’t have that. I missed it.
CKC	What about your job?
SP	I continued to work. But there was this constant whining from some people, ‘how much do you make? Is it worth doing the job?’ Everyday I had to hear that you make only Rs 5000 and you have to spend Rs 4000 to make Rs 5000, it’s all true but that work made me feel I had a purpose. There were times where I felt like I was useless. I wanted to work because that was the only thing that made me, me.  Six months after our wedding I had to quit my job. I quit the job for many reasons. First, no one wanted me to go for a job. Second, ‘you will be moving to Us in a couple of months and then why should you work’. When you were married to a guy in the US, everyone had an expectation and started asking Jojo on his short visits ‘when are you taking her?’ We both had to make that connection first with each other right ! Before we plan something right? There was so much gap in our relationship. I don’t know if I can call it a relationship, it is difficult to figure out a name for what we were going through those days.
CKC	Did you make it to the US?
SP	The problem was in his job he cannot take his spouse with him but I can go visit for a longer time but not stay with him. Jojo made arrangements for me to visit and stay in the US. I went for the interview at the US Embassy and the first thing they wanted to know was,’you are educated, you are young, what is the guarantee that you would come back to India?’ My initial response was ‘what? I’m going to come back. I don’t understand why you are asking me that.` I didn’t even like that question and I felt that was kind of an insult to me. How would you prove you will come back? I still don’t know how to answer that.
CKC	Visa status?
SP	I was not sad that I didn’t get the visa, but when I came home I saw my mom and everyone else were sad. For everyone it was an easy visa. ‘How come you didn’t get it?’ They rejected me and I didn’t care but because of that visa process I had to quit my job. When I came home everyone was disappointed and sad. That’s when I realised that was a big deal. Now returning home to Bangalore, I have no job, no purpose. That’s when I looked around.
CKC	Where to now ?
SP	I lived close to a College so I enquired and later enrolled for post graduation in Human Resources.  The reason. I wanted to study. That was my other option and only option. Jojo was very supportive. He would say yes to everything I want, never a no from him. Maybe this was his way of compensating for him not being there for me.  So I joined, my classes started and right that time I also learnt I am pregnant. There were objections to me going to college and hesitation from many in and around family and relatives and certain people. But I was determined, ‘I am going to continue no matter what.’ The amount of stress that I underwent this time was unwanted and should never have happened.   Now we have been married for three years and I am dealing with everything alone. By the time I got pregnant I realised the fact that no one is standing up for me and I realised I have to do this on my own and I started to stand up for myself. I had that courage and I decided I will do this for myself. So I continued my studies.
CKC	Your husband is supportive.
SP	Jojo would give me the independence and leave. I have to face everything on my own. Nobody wanted me to study, nobody wanted me to do anything at all, people in general wanted me in the house and put the flowers in a vase and dress up and go for social events and smile and be merry. We were not like a normal couple, I had no husband to walk with, he was never there and maybe if he was there I would have felt comfortable and more at peace but as a married woman who was ‘single’ that’s when I realised that’s not me. I was sad doing all those things alone. I didn’t know where to go, what to do.  I still remember some were betting on me saying, ‘I don’t think she will complete her studies, let her try.’  That was challenging for me and so I am more determined to do it. Thank you to all those who never supported me, that gave me the fuel to build on myself.
CKC	So you definitely graduated.
SP	My morning sickness was getting worse day by day as my pregnancy progressed. I sat on the front row so that I could rush to the restroom each time I had to vomit. I continued the first year but was not able to write the exam as my daughter was due and then I came back after delivery and started second year. This time I hired someone to look after my baby when I went to class, so now that was a problem. ‘Why do you have to study? Take care of your kid, stop wasting time? Be a good mother.’ I did write my first year’s exam and completed it and then finished the second year and graduated in 2004.
CKC	Determined. Now do you have a plan?
SP	It’s a journey where you always felt this is not something that I am or I want. That’s when the question you asked ‘what did you want to be in life?’ come in. I never had one. Never. For me other people were making or planning my life, I thought that it was okay to go with the flow. I thought that’s how it was meant to work. But I realised, even though very late, that’s not how it works. If it works that way it’s not going to make me happy. And it’s not just about my happiness, it’s literally how I felt. ‘I felt useless. No purpose.’ I decided to work again, so I applied for jobs. I worked small jobs here and there, admin jobs, H.R. jobs, in Bangalore. That’s when Jojo and I planned to get away from all these.
CKC	What did you want to get away from?
SP	To be a young girl, young person out here with her husband working abroad, that’s very challenging to live in our society. I don’t know how to explain it. The feeling itself, the way people look at you, how people think about you, forget about your family, the whole system is different. The way people look at you is different. And it’s not good. ‘Husbandless wife. Is there something wrong in the relationship? Are they divorced? Is she available?’  Many factors. Didn’t let me live. I never had any dream of a life I wanted, so how can I say it was not how I wanted, no, it was not that. Even now some people will ask me why did you make that choice to move away. I don’t know how to describe it. When you are alone with your husband not around, it’s not a good feeling. I could not tolerate it. It’s not because you don’t have a guy next to you it’s not that, It’s a different attitude from where people looked at you. I don’t think anyone other than those who have gone through it will really understand what I am talking about, the feeling that we have to go through. No one wants to listen to you.  For me that was hurting me like anything. It’s so hard to explain. For me these are times I wish someone understood me. Even if you told someone no one would understand me. In my situation I think I did the right thing by not telling anyone because nobody would understand and if you say anything you are bad, you are imagining things, you are just making things up.
CKC	When you say how you are looked at. Is it by people around you, or people you work with?
SP	No exceptions. That’s how I felt. If I say something I am blamed. There was a situation where I complained and I even asked my husband to come back.  I explained to him my situation and even though I asked him for that, that was not the reason I wanted him to come back. I wanted that identity inorder to live in this society. Otherwise the society was suffocating me.
CKC	Did you reach out to anyone?
SP	I didn’t reach out to anyone, not my mother, my brother, or my friends. I didn’t reach out because at that time I don’t think they could have helped me. But when I was not in a good phase I reached out to a friend but she didn’t want to take me in for a day or two to support me, so that kind of made me realise a lot about my friendship and also not to reach out to anybody else as well. The whole thing is messed up.
CKC	What did you do?
SP	I had a discussion with Jojo and he was agreeable to my idea. So I moved out with our daughter to a different locality in Bangalore and I didn’t want to not see anyone anymore. That was a quiet life. During this time I wanted to find a permanent solution for us. The only solution I found within my limits was maybe go somewhere else. That’s how I started to think about places to immigrate. That’s when the picture of Canada popped up. I spoke to Jojo and he was all in for it and in 2005 we planned to apply as a family to migrate to Canada.  Initially I applied when Rhea was younger, when she was one and a half. We applied together as a family, I convinced him saying maybe when we relocate I won’t have to deal with all the societal pressure and dramas, so we could live our lives together as a family once and for all. That was our initial plan. As always, it was not received well and every time from here on, there was always someone or the other blocking our path.  This was the beginning of when I started going against the flow. I started saying NO said I said NO to many. Nothing could now make me change my mind. Nothing could stop me, I have decided. I have to do something to keep my sanity and I didn’t decide this overnight.

CKC ———	Did Jojo relocate to India and did things turn out good?
SP	Oh! how I wish that happened. All together the days we lived together were less, if you count the days it will be less than a year. We did not have that connection. Sometimes I am like, I did not have my dad and my marriage also did not work out, things happen. Jojo is a good man, good heart and good person. Never mind if it’s good or bad. If you do not have your husband near you and no one on your side it is worse than bad. I cannot hate him nor love him. When I talk about him, he is a very nice person. I would not call ours a relationship. And this situation made my life not liveable. The time I decided it was not working out was after years of trying.  The moment I realised people were starting to take control of my life, me and my daughter.  When I say control. The moment you have a kid, it’s all about the kid. You are not important. ‘What about me now?’ Whatever you may be, it does not matter to others. It’s not that I don’t love my kid but I realised I won’t be there for my kid if I lived that life. So I had to do something for me and my kid. When my kid was there, I felt everyone around started to pamper her and spoil her and I started to sense that I was losing my position as a mother over my daughter and my life. That’s not going to help me or her. My husband was supportive of me and everything I do, but he was never there, never present and never around. Never.  So we decided to separate and see how things go. There came a point I got so strong, people said ‘how can you leave what you have and lead a life on your own, you won’t even survive out here’. There was no support for me from anyone, family or friends, I was in a battle and I am all alone in this battle. Because of my decision to leave and live a separate life.  If I had to live another six months, it came to a point where I would lose myself completely. I am a mother, I love my daughter but if you are not useful enough it’s different. This separation from Jojo was also amicable. He was all okay with it and he didn’t even object or deny or even try to say we will work it out. He was very supportive. If I say I want to stay on my own then he is okay, if I said we will migrate to Canada, he is okay. What I want to do, I can do that. Isn’t he nice? Yes. But what about me as a person! All this time my husband was supporting me with whatever I decided. He was never there for me but he was open to everything. It was confusing and making things more and more complicated for me. For some people when I complain or when I am not happy they never understand, for them it is ‘you have all the freedom and you have a good house, you have everything, so what is there to complain about?’ No one would understand. Anybody who thinks that I made a wrong choice in life, I made a bad decision in my life, it may not be the right choice for you, but, it was the best decision for me.
CKC	You were always alone in this relationship but now you are on your own. Up until this you were the most loved person, big expectation  but you wrecked it all by the one decision to put yourself first and take care of yourself first. Isn’t that what everyone said?
SP	Worst part is I was the role model for everyone until I decided to put myself first. That’s when you realise all these stories and riddles, ‘when you are good everyone likes you. When you are not up to others’ expectations you are not good.’ It was hard. Hard to go through with it.  It was hard but I had that strength. It’s just my prayers, nothing else. It is not my credit. I always believed in my prayer and my faith. That helped me to go through this. Even now.
CKC	How was your life during your separation and being a single mother?
SP	When Rhea was ready for Lower Kindergarten (LKG), we moved to Kerala. I was not able to afford Bangalore at that time. I bought a place in Kerala to be closer to a place I know and can afford. Some people were angry that I moved into their locality because they didn’t want to associate with me because I make my own choices and live by my code and it’s a bad example for their kids. When my daughter Rhea was ready for kindergarten I used that time to complete my Bachelor of Education (B.Ed degree). I didn’t want to do an office job anymore because that made me work longer hours. Now that I am settled and on my own with my daughter, I want to work somewhere where I can be closer to my child and be there for her when she needs me. I didn’t want to be away from her for too long, so that’s when my choice for teaching came up. I was never a great student and never thought I would be a teacher in a million dreams but it was the most feasible choice and plausibility to be closer to what our life will be. I got the job right after my studies, in a school close to my home and my daughter was also now studying there, life was all set, as I hoped for for both of us.
CKC	Did you pursue your plan to migrate to Canada during these times?
SP	God is planning things in his times. When Rhea was one and a half years old, I started applying and nothing was working. I was told to apply as a student, go as a visitor, but I didn’t want to do either and also leave my girl out there and go. I wanted us to go together. If it is Permanent Residency we can go together then we will go together, otherwise I didn’t want to do that. The whole point was to be with my daughter and be with her as family and make a life of our own. Every time my agents would call and say, there is a visitor visa, worker visa, study visa, I was always NO. I will only go if it is a Permanent Resident Permit. I have done enough damage to myself and I don’t want to pass on those same damages to my child.  I decided to move to another country when I felt nothing was going according to my plan. I was not applying for Canada anymore. But the agency, they always keep renewing my application, updating my status, and applying for my PR process. They had all my docs now. They will call me and inform me they have applied and I will just let that happen. They kept applying whenever the time was up and it went on in the background. I was not in any way now looking to move away, I just bought a house, have a job and life for my daughter is also set. So going to Canada may not be an option now,  life was almost set for us.
CKC	So you have finally set yourself up as a working mother, single parent and a life of your own in South India.
SP	Because I made my own decisions, set a life on my terms for myself and my child and I am living a good life now. Yet it was not accepted by many. Life didn’t let me down when I started to live on my own terms. Many people did not agree with my choices. Every time something goes wrong in my life or a situation where I am stuck, there are many who will happily remind me ‘I told you so.’ Those moments never cease to end.
CKC	During your separation was Jojo a part of your life?
SP	We have been separated now for three years and our lives were separate as well. That’s when Jojo decided to come back to India for good.
CKC	I wish it had happened earlier. Maybe things would have been different for you.
SP	True. But reality is different. When he relocated, and started to live a “normal life” he started to realise what was happening. That’s when he started to reach out to me again. One day he called me and told me, ‘believe me, now I know what you went through.’ I am happy he understood but my life totally changed because of this. I won’t take it in one sentence. The other thing he told me was, ‘you lost your father when you were young and he was not there to support you. And I didn’t do my duty as a husband either and it is haunting me now. I need to do something for you now’. I told him because you said this, it’s not going to change me overnight and I am not saying anything now, but it might change me. Not right now,  don’t keep your expectations high. His parents wanted him to move forward in life and for him he said, ‘I will not do that until I see, you are okay and I will not commit until I see you are okay in life.’ He was a good man but it did not work out for us then. He never wanted any conflicts, he was agreeable to anything I say but he was never there for me.
CKC	A person who was never there for you now wants to be back in your life.
SP	He reached out and he was like I am there for you now. I told him, ‘you say that and you disappear,’ as he was never there for me before. I used to tease him, ‘here comes I miss you.’ He will tell a million times a day, ‘I miss you.’ I didn’t know what was missing. I cannot say he never liked me or loved me but there was no connection. Maybe someone else must judge what was missing. I don’t know. He didn’t know I was 9 years younger than him. On the second day after marriage he said, ‘I did not know you were 21.’ Like him I was told this is your man and I think he was also told this is your woman and we tied the knot and our life didn’t have any plans for us to be together. That was the problem. I went with the flow and he was a wind that blew at times and left me and came back only when he chose to.
CKC	So was there a chance for reconciliation?
SP	In 2011, Jojo was in Cochin. His cruise ship was out of commission and he was staying in Cochin alone for many months. That time, he was in his apartment doing nothing and he started to think, and rethink about his life and about me and Rhea. One day he called and asked me, ‘do you mind if I call you?’ I told him straight away, ‘Jojo, I don’t mind talking but keep in mind I don’t want you to have any hopes that we will get back together or that I may come back after talking for a day. I am not saying it will never happen, but I don’t want you to keep that hope and talk to me.’ He said he just wants to be in touch and do right by me. During these months, he would call me everyday. He also wanted to make sure if he had a chance with me again. I may have thought about it, there was a chance.  But again, this is something I have never shared with anyone. For everyone he was good, I am bad because I left him. Nobody knows what was inside. This is the time he said he was haunted by what happened to me and us as a family.  So he asked can you tell me where you want me to go? What do I do now? He started opening up and we had a great connection during these times. For the first time we made some plans for ourselves even though we were separated.
CKC	So you had a relationship with your husband for the first time.
SP	Yes. Before this whenever we were on the phone or when he came when I shared my feelings or my situation he never understood. But this time it was different. I have never told this to anyone and I don’t think anyone knows this part where we had this connection for a long time after our separation period. People said and still believe, ‘I didn’t want Jojo’. After talking to him I don’t have any unanswered questions or unfinished business, we cleared everything that was between us. That didn’t mean we would end up living together. He understood what was happening in my life when he used to not be there for me and for me him understanding this fact was like a burden lifted away from me. He listened and he knew what I was going through. We had a great connection during this time. This is when he said, ‘I think I am going to leave, because living here after knowing what you had to deal with,’ he said, ‘I don’t want to live close to you because that will make me more sad that I did wrong by you and was never there for you.’  He wanted to go somewhere but he said, ‘I don’t want to go back to the ship because that’s what ruined my life.’
CKC	He moved away?
SP	He moved to Bombay and he was looking for a job and finally found a position and started working. We used to talk everyday and it was a good feeling for both of us. He had an expectation that I would consider moving back with him and start a life afresh. I never said no or yes. We had the best six months ever in our entire relationship. He started sending me gifts, cards, presents for Rhea, and continued calling everyday. He started sending me packages, then I told him we only agreed to talk. I told him not to have any expectations. He kept sending me all sorts of things and maybe this was his way of coping with his guilt of not being there for me and he always showered us both with gifts and more cards for me. He started calling daily three or more times and still kept sending packages, clothes for Rhea, games for her and random things all the time.  I don’t know what made him do this, and he started calling me, without a break. I did get a bit worried as he called so many times a day, I told him to slow down. He said okay, ‘I will only call once a day.’
CKC	He continued to call.
SP	So one day while in school I saw a call from Jojo. I was teaching and could not answer the call. Then I am getting this call from an unknown number from Bombay. I was in my class and could not attend the call. I missed the call, I was thinking why is he calling me now, he knew I was teaching. So I was mad, I dialed the number and before he could say anything, I said in a very strong temper, ‘why are you calling me at this time, I am working, I am in class?’  A total stranger on the other side said, ‘Ma’m, I am calling from the hospital, your number was the last number dialed from this phone and we are trying to reach next of kin. This person met with an accident. I am afraid to say he passed away.’ Chippy I don’t have words to explain my state of mind. I could not even cry in front of anyone, because I am the bad person who left him and he died. That was one of the hardest times. It took me a while to get over this.
CKC	In your mind you too had dreams to get back together and start a new life. You were both finally making things work for each other.
SP	All true but no one knew we were close and we had these six months where we were in daily conversations about our lives and daily activities and Rhea. No one knows. I went to the funeral. I am there, I want to cry in my loudest voice and feel my Jojo but I cannot cry. This was a statement I heard from everyone, ‘she didn’t want him, then why is she sad?’ Don’t I not have a right to be sad? People were rude that way. It was here on when things started to spiral in my life again.
CKC	How did things turn out for you now? You did have a life of your own there and a job and life is set.
SP	Yes. So I thought. My life was set and things were all going back to normal and this incident changed the course of everything that I built up towards. Somewhere I felt I am not going to make it here. Like always God works in mysterious ways. Jojo passed away in early November 2011. Around the last week of November I received a call from the Canadian Agency, ‘Your visa is approved. Congratulations.’  It was something I never expected. I was debating within myself, should I go or not. Then I thought to myself, it’s going to get really hard if I have to go through this alone again and live here. I better move. Now I have an opportunity, my Rhea will also have a new life. I said to myself, ‘make plans for yourself and your kids’ life will be fine if you take care of yourself.’
CKC	You are in a trauma now. Did you talk to anyone or reach out for help? You just went through something devastating.
SP	Jojo and I had six months together. We were closer than ever and it made a big difference in both our lives. He knew that and I know that. Because we had that six months of conversation and a real relationship, I never had any unfinished feelings with him. I was devastated when he passed away, the issue for me was I could not share with anyone what I was feeling, going through and how we bonded during those six months.  I was severely saddened. Anyone or nobody would understand what my pain was, it was the hardest thing I had to go through. Those six months were the time we got to know each other. These are things which we cannot plan. God was planning things for me but why did he make it so hard for me? I don’t know. I decided and said, ‘I am leaving’. My kid is seven years old now. I knew the first year would be difficult.   When I started I was the shyest person. Now, no one could think what I have become. Anyone who knew me, it was a shock for them. It was like ‘Sakhy was making a choice for herself and it was selfish. Is she for real?’ For me, I was not fighting with anyone but I was just making my own choices. Except it was a shock to many just because nobody thought I am a person who can survive on my own. People were talking to me directly, ‘You will come back soon. You won’t be able to live on your own. You will not survive. In a year or less, you will be here. It is hard with a child. How will you go for a job? ‘Whatever you decide, what did the child do?’  My father died and my mother was a widow at the age of 25 and she was told she had to live for the kids from here on, no life of her own. It did not help her. So I saw that I made choices because that was the best for me and my kid. If you ask me how I did this? I don’t know.

CKC ———	Canada is a beautiful country but the road to being in a secure settled phase is a long process. How did you do it?
SP	Even though the  trauma was still with me, the struggle that I had to go through in the initial period of my settling in Canada kept me going and overcome that. I had two options. First I thought I will stick to teaching and get into that path but if I did that course it’s one year and there is no guarantee I will find a job. Then I was told I had another option. I was eligible to do a Canadian Government funded course called Advanced Office Administration Course, I completed this in six months. The whole course and my stay and my child care for Rhea was all supported and funded by the government. This was specifically for the immigrants.  I didn’t get a job right the next day I passed out, it was a couple of months after I was offered. I would apply left and right, I get called for an interview but never get selected because of lack of experience. One day I was sitting in the library and thinking, ‘God if I don’t find a job in the next three months, I will run out of money and I would have to go back to India.’ I didn’t know what to do. I used to drop Rhea at school and go to the library, read, find leads and start applying for jobs. I was in tears due to the uncertainty and then the call came from the school I just did my course. “Are you still looking for work?” So that’s my life.  The day I didn’t know what was ahead for me I got the call. Somehow my life was planned for me. An invisible hand guiding me and my course in life. God’s grace they hired me as a temporary employee as a Program Coordinator for the same course I did.  For me it was perfect because now even after I finish my tenure I can now show a Canadian experience in my resume. Once you have a job here, it is easy to find the next.
CKC	So gradually you made it, life is again in order.
SP	I moved on and relocated with a very simple life, away from everybody and I didn’t even connect with very many people. My life was set, my job was secured, my girl goes to school, I bought an apartment, and my life was going in a routine for years. In 2017, Rhea was in grade 7 and I am thinking, ‘finally, I am set.’  My life was Rhea, work, my small circle of friends and life was good. I have to pick my girl up after school and I am thinking that when she is in grade 8 I am going to finally have more time for myself and I will have a breather to have a coffee after work. And then I found a new job, and my girl is now in grade 8, ‘wow, now I am going to have some time for myself.’  Rhea started school and things were going good. Then I started getting this tiredness, unexplainable tiredness. It’s a feeling where I felt something was pulling me down. Maybe I didn’t explain well to the doctor but I never had to ever go to a doctor for any illness. I was in good health all these while. All of a sudden, I am seeing myself going to the doctors every other week. I said, ‘I don’t feel good.’ That’s all I was able to explain. There were no symptoms other than I was feeling low.  One of my doctors even though it was a mid-life crisis or that I am depressed. ‘I am at the best time of my life and I cannot be depressed’. I kept going to the doctor and in the beginning the lethargy was now and then, but then a month later I was tired all the time. By the start of summer that year I could not stand up to put on the kettle and make a cup of tea. I will switch on the kettle and sit down, I could not stand for even one minute. Unexplainable tiredness. The doctor gave me Tylenol to relieve my pain. I went back and told my doc, when I have Tylenol my pain is gone but it’s still there.
CKC	What’s going on? What about at work?
SP	As a mom, it keeps you going. I went to work, at work I am sitting and working, I kept going. When at work I just forget about my pain. I would pick my girl after school and life was going on but I was not okay at all.  In the early stage I would cook as usual but then I started cooking less and ordering in more. It was work, my girl and come back, order in and sleep. I was really not able to cook anymore. I was not expecting anything, I just felt tired. Doctor said nothing but I said to myself, ‘it has to be something.’  My doctor finally asked me to get a CT Scan. Let’s say, ‘I am tired and I cannot make tea and my CT is requested and my appointment for the same is in another month or two. So what would I do all that while.’  So I thought it will be a break for me and I will go home and do a check up as well.  So I decided to go to visit my home in Kerala as it was summer vacation for Rhea. I thought I should also use this time to do a thorough check up on my health. Nothing was diagnosed yet and I also did not think more, just a routine health check.  I landed and went directly to the hospital from the airport. I didn’t want to panic my mother, so did not mention anything about my visit to the hospital. Everyone in my family thinks I am there for the vacation with my girl.  At the hospital, first thing they told me was ‘You have a fever.’ So that’s when I realised I had fever all throughout these times, I was taking Tylenol to comfort my pain and uneasiness and it suppressed my fever.  So the next two weeks I was in and out of the hospital for more tests and finally I did a biopsy and the diagnosis was Lymphoma. A cancer of the lymphatic system.
CKC	This is brutal. How did you take it?
SP	How did I take it! Now I have to fight my cancer out of the system. I am the only one for my daughter. I called work and told my situation, they approved my sick leave and I stayed back for the next six months for the treatment.  Chippy, while I was fighting cancer, that was not my major fight. After two months my girl has classes, what will I do with her? My mind was going into a panic mode. Before my treatment started, I was pretty thin and frail and many people thought and predicted that I would not survive. So as the treatment was going on I felt I am losing control of my life again and also my daughter’s fate being decided by strangers, as many around me were making decisions for and about what to do with my girl. My girl. Without even thinking or asking me.  Some people would ask me to plan my daughters life if I die. I would tell them,’do you realise what you are talking to me about?’ So I said, if something happens you talk about it and do whatever, ‘I am alive and now I will make the right choices for my daughter. Look, now I am not planning to die.’ This was a challenge for me. From every side some people were still haunting me with statements like,’she decided to leave her husband, this is her punishment and she will definitely die.’  Some people started giving suggestions, ‘let’s place Rhea in a boarding school’. I am still alive and fighting everyday to get better and here people from everywhere are writing eulogy for me and deciding my daughter’s fate after my death. It was challenging.  While I was struggling from back home in Canada, a dear friend of mine called, ‘hey, I tried calling you, where are you?’ Then I told her this is my situation and I am going to be in India for six months. Her first response was, ‘what do you do with Rhea?’ I told her, I am thinking, praying and planning. Then she goes,’send her here to me. I will take care of her.’  I asked Rhea, ‘what do you want to do?’ She said, ‘Mom, I would love to stay here and near you but at the same time I wish to go to school back home’. She is a strong child and when I first told her that it was cancer, she said, ‘Mom, it’s okay, we can take care. We have survived all these and we will overcome this too. You have your mom and brother now here, so you stay and get better and come home soon.’ Sometimes I feel she is more mature than me.  Until that call I didn’t know what to do. I was feeling a sort of relief and I told my friend, you think about it for a week and then I will call you after a week and you tell me. By then the decision on Rhea’s future was becoming a heated debate, ‘we have to send her to boarding.’  So I called my friend after 4 days and she said, ‘I already told you, you send her and I will take care of Rhea.’ She has known Rhea since we moved to Canada and she is my great friend. She saved me from a huge dilemma. She did not even hesitate, this is what friendship is, I am thankful to her forever.  I had to put it quite bluntly to some people who were offended by my decision, so I told them, ‘yes, it’s cancer and it’s treatable, I am not going to die in a day or six months and even if it is the worst I will not die tomorrow. Rhea has her life back there and she cannot miss class and I want her to live her life.’  There were eye rolls from many people and some people even still judge me for my choices. We have to do what is right for us and we know what is right for our children. And if you have the strength and your will is strong you will be able to do anything for your child. With the help of good people around you, be it family and friends. In two days I sent Rhea to Canada and my friend picked her up from the airport. I continued my treatment and once the chemo started things started getting better for me. The treatment was doing wonders for me.
CKC	How long did you stay away from Rhea?
SP	After she left I had to continue my treatment for 4 more months, during this time we spoke everyday before and after school. I would wait for her call and it was she who got me through the hard times. My mom and I got to bond more and I became closer and this was a blessing for me and my mom to speak, open up and be there for each other. It was a hard time but as a family, we got closer, My mom, my brother and me. It was a good phase. They saw me through the tough times and they helped me survive through the hard times. I am happy because of that.  My last treatment was on 13 December 2018 and my doctor was initially hesitant for me to leave immediately after the treatment, he wanted me to wait for a few more weeks, but I had to go, my daughter was there I could not be away from her anymore. I booked my tickets and flew back. I am all clear now.
CKC	More than cancer you were fighting a battle on so many fronts.
SP	For me when I was fighting with my cancer, it was not cancer that I was fighting more, that was nothing to me, when I say nothing to me, it was not what I was fighting for, I realised when people find this happiness, when I was in my mode, own my own, where I was in control of my life and my choices no one appreciates that, no one liked it.  Even when I moved to Canada there were some who said, ‘she is going with a seven year old, we will see how long she will stay, she will be back soon’. It went on and on.  Chippy, when I was sick, it is an eye opener, people can do this, I am not blaming anyone but this is what I saw in my life, no one truly supports you if you make all the choices in your life on your own. This is something I experienced.  Other than that, when I got sick, you won’t believe this, many people were happy, because ‘I did wrong, I deserve this’. For me during that time to take that, that’s where I said it’s just God. It was not my thinking, people said that to my face. Not people who are strangers but people who I thought would support me at my darkest hours. They did support me but they wanted to make sure I was told about this because of my bad decisions in life. If God started punishing us just like how they say,
CKC	we would all be dead.
SP	Exactly. Dealing with these sorts of things was harder than my disease at that time.  My immediate family, like my mother and brother, started to trust me on my decisions and what I did, that was huge for me. Without their support through this phase I would have gone mad. Even during my hardest times I have never given up. I’m in touch with Jojo’s family and we have a good connection now. Our immediate circle was good but the bigger circle was hard to deal with. When people need space just give them the space. I was losing hair and I was frail and when you undergo cancer treatment people respond differently. People wanted to see me and I said no and no one would understand. Then they started to call and would tell me, ‘it’s okay, we are praying for you, we feel sad for you, what will you do with Rhea if anything happens?’ So I stopped answering the calls and then people would ask why I am not responding and I would start explaining and then one day I said to myself, ‘why am I explaining to anyone what I am doing and why. Let them think whatever they want.’  I rented an apartment and my mom and myself moved in, we switched off the phone and we would just have our time. I bonded with my mother during this time and it is something that I cherish.
CKC	Almost 10 years in Canada. You have always held a job and made your life for yourself again.
SP	I have had different jobs over the years. I am working for the provincial government as an Administrative Assistant. It is a very nice setup, good people and great team, and peaceful. I am set and it is all good. It’s harder initially. If you put in the work in the beginning you will not have to worry about anything later. Once you are settled here, you will never want to move away from here.
CKC	You are a fighter.
SP	My life started pushing me one step after the other. It’s not something that I ever planned. Life made me take every step. I believe everything was planned ahead of me. If I would think about what I would do tomorrow, then I would know I will have days ahead like these again and I will face them again if I have to. But I was never stuck before and I know I will not be in the future. The next day there will be something.
CKC	Have you ever thought about remarriage?
SP	I was busy raising a kid. I am not looking for anyone but I am not saying if I find someone I will never think about a life with that person. I always wanted to be around people, family and have a big family. But look what I was denied. Somebody said to me, ‘what you wish the most you will be denied’. Which is so true, I never wanted to live alone like this. This is not what I wanted. I never wanted that. I always wanted to live with a family. I never wanted to be a person who wanted to live on my own. I was not. I was forced to.
CKC	You have plenty of friends who stand by you.
SP	I have friends from all parts of the world. I cherish my friends and I am grateful for the good and soulful friendship I have and had in my life. I have lost friends, gained friends during my trials in life. Some friends who you thought are your good friends never stood by you and some asked the wrong question and did not respect your needs and only stayed to figure out if my hair has started to shed, if I will die or what happened between Jojo and me. My life, I learned that friendship is precious and when you know who your good friend is, ‘keep them closer.’
CKC	You are happy now.
SP	Yes, I am. Am settled, happy and all good. Life is good, Rhea is growing up and slowly becoming independent. She is a strong girl and I am proud of her. It is not easy for kids, the transition. She moved here when she was seven years, initially her accent was an issue, there were racial tensions, overall, it was a tough journey and my daughter says, ‘every year it gets better. It’s good.’ She is in grade 12, working part time as a soccer coach for a kids team, she is driving now, and that means I have my me time and I can travel a lot.
CKC	What’s in the future?
SP	From where I started I never thought I would even go to work. Look at where I am. Sometimes when I go to work I say to myself, ‘where am I!’ I would like to do my small little things. It’s always good to have something new to try, so I want to learn to ski, travel more around Canada and learn some new crafts. No big plans, no big dreams, just peace. Take life as it comes, taking it easy. I believe in my prayer and the only strength you can depend on is prayer.
CKC	Thankyou Sakhy for sharing your journey so far. I know you have endured a lot in life and I wish only the best and only the best for you in future.  I cannot thank you enough for this conversation. It will make a difference to many who are looking to find inspiration when going through tough times in life.
SP	I am sharing my account because I want to make a difference in another person’s life. Just one if I can help, means a lot to me. People who know me see me as a calm person and sometimes perceive me as a strong person, but I have had so many ups and downs in my life. These trails in my life have made me stronger and better as a human being. Sharing my story has been so reassuring for me. I feel happy. Thank you, Chippy.

Follow Sakhy Francis

Introducing to you, a mother, a wife, a daughter, Sr. Clinical Project Assistant, and a survivor, Keisha Mathew.

Growing up in Ohio, young Keisha was the enforcer. She was articulate and clear on her life’s direction, partly. As she progressed in life, her path became clear and her focus sharp. During university, Chemistry gave her a hard time, yet she was no quitter. From choosing her career to choosing her life partner, Keisha had all sorted. With a growing family, and advancing career, and wonderful life, she was getting established in life. What could go wrong now! 

In life, nothing stays as we plan. There comes a time we face trials, hard as they can be. Even when the pain was unbearable, she fought through it and proved that she was not a quitter. This devastating turn in her life has made her stronger. Yes, this setback was painful, and it for sure gave her time to discover more about herself. Keisha is on a journey to finding herself. 

After a few years of battle, Keisha was back at work and was hoping for a career improvement that got stalled due to her illness. The good news is she will be starting a new position as the Clinical Research Study Management Associate where she will be running sponsored clinical trials. Life is incredibly amazing.

Sharing her unbelievable story of survival, triumphs, and trials and the everyday battle for endurance. We are in conversation with Keisha Mathew from Houston, Texas.

A conversation with Chippy & Keisha Mathew,
Sr. Clinical Project Assistant, Texas, United States of America. 

CKC———–	Keisha, How are you? What have you been upto?
KM	I am doing well. Thankful. It has been an eventful few years and Covid has given me a little bit of time to reflect on myself. When you said why you are doing this project and about your intent to uplift people and to help when people are stuck, I feel that. I am currently in that boat right now. I Hope that something new and more fulfilling will come along.
CKC	Hope is what drives us. How was life during Covid?
KM	It’s like, trying to put a fire out and everywhere it starts. You are holding the extinguisher and trying to fight the fire around you. But no one is putting the fire out on me. Challenging times. I had to perform at 100% all the time in too many roles at one time.
CKC	Are you not able to find a space for yourself?
KM	I just don’t have time for myself which is sad. I guess, after work, household chores, caring for the family, and tucking my kids into bed, I am exhausted. I definitely could find time for myself but I fear that it would just become another task for the day, and not something energising or fulfilling. I have a routine but when I am out of my routine, I don’t know what to do with myself. That’s actually my “me” time, but I don’t know how to just focus on me. I talk to my mom often and I will tell her, ‘I am bored, I don’t have anything to do.’ She will tell me, ‘you need to find a hobby.’ That’s true, ‘I need to find a hobby.’
CKC	What is your favorite pastime?
KM	My life is surrounded by work, taking care of the kids, spending time with Rohit, my husband, taking care of the house, and being in touch with our families. Right now although I have a whole lot of friends and am friendly and I meet people everywhere I go, I don’t have hobbies. Growing up I was into books. I used to read a lot. I know I should just do it. Lately, I have been reading for a little bit. Just random things, articles mainly. Then I started getting into audio books. The only reason to shift to audio books was to have something on when I was working. But did I really enjoy the book? ‘No’. It felt more like a chore. Also I was part of a book club a few years back. Maybe I should just join once again. At least it will get me to read again.   The fact is I found it very difficult after becoming a mother and with my illness to find out exactly what it is that I like doing for myself, what it is that I want, and want to be. I am in search of that drive or motivation.
CKC	Before we delve into your life, tell me who Keisha is today?
KM	Personally, I am a mother, a wife, a daughter and a survivor. Professionally, I am the Sr. Clinical Project Assistant for a Pharmaceutical Company just promoted as the Study Management Associate . I am one among the thousands in my company who helps build an impact on people’s lives across several key therapeutic areas. We discover and deliver innovative medicines that solve serious health issues. I am proud of what we do.
CKC	At work who are you?
KM	At work, I am the doer. My mom had this motto, ‘if you got to get something done right, you got to do it yourself.’ And I believe it too. That’s why I say I am a doer. What I do basically is help the clinical teams get trials started at investigative sites like hospitals, private practices, and so on. The team manages the study and I provide support to the sites to start the study at their location. Eventually, this support will lead to a marketable drug or device, and even a treatment or cure for a health issue.  In the end, I am giving them the drugs, or for better wording, investigative products to start the clinical trials. I feel like I am doing all the work, asking all the questions, and even to the point of thinking for other people. The latter is one of many pet-peeves of mine.
CKC	Who was Keisha when she was younger?
KM	Bossy. I am the oldest out of my siblings and of the cousins from my mother’s side. I was always kind of put into the enforcer role, making sure that others don’t get out of line and if they do tell on them. My siblings and cousins called me the second mom. I hated that term, but I lived up to it.
CKC	Responsible at a very young age. What did you want to be when you were younger?
KM	When I was my daughter Eliza’s age I wanted to be a doctor, an artist and a ballerina.
CKC	Wow… That’s very specific.
KM	Yes, yet Ballerina was never going to happen because I never took classes. I realised I could not really draw, so being an artist was out of the picture. So I was wishing to be a doctor, so all my academics were steered towards that.

CKC———–	How did things pan out after school?
SM	At 18, in High School I got accepted to an Apprenticeship at Wright State University. This program was based on science, engineering and math. We were paired with Professors of the University specifically towards “our” interests. Who knows at 18 exactly what they want to be, right? Well, during the introduction for this program I was listening  to the different professors discuss their research projects with their potential apprentices. Upon hearing a specific one about genetics,  that project gave me a clear idea of what I wanted to do in life at that time. I requested to be paired with Professor Dan Krane who was a Geneticist and also a Forensic Scientist. The interesting fact at this stage was that he brought back a memory that was not an important memory to me, but it triggered an experience I had as a pre-teen.
CKC	Not an important memory but significant.
SM	Yes. When I was twelve, there was this big case about this football player, O.J. Simpson. The case was a national headline. I remember being in 6th grade and in class we all were glued to the television. It was literally the case that stopped the nation. Just to watch the verdict. We were 12 years old, and we don’t know this person at all. All we see is a black football player and knew nothing of him up until what he was accused of doing, which was murdering two individuals. I remember, everything stopped for the day, traffic was stopped, the whole nation was in front of the TV, waiting for the verdict. That was impactful. He was found not guilty, and there was a sigh of relief from my teachers. I guess to my teachers, he was their hero growing up. Going back to the apprenticeship, I got to work under the doctor that worked on that trial. He was the one to help get O.J. acquitted. That intrigued me, so I worked under this doctor’s supervision, and I picked up what he was doing.
CKC	What did you work on during this apprenticeship?
KM	My project was identifying the genes of  an oak tree from Germany. Why was this specific tree important? Well, when Jesse Owen, the black track star that made history after he destroyed the Nazi myth of Aryan supremacy at the 1936 Olympics, he brought home four gold medals, and four oak saplings originating from Germany. It is believed he planted one in his mother’s yard in Cleveland, the second one at his old high school, the third stands on All-American Road at The Ohio State University(OSU), and the last one died.  Our project was to do a genetic analysis of the tree that was planted on OSU’s campus. Even though our results were inconclusive, I had so much fun during this time. Apart from that I loved what I did and gained new understanding on the subject that I decided genetics and forensic studies were what I wanted to do.
CKC	So did you apply to Ohio State University?
KM	Yes. I applied. During Freshman year of college, I took biology.  This was my first class dissecting any animals and I had to dissect fetal pig, my stomach turned. I couldn’t do it. So I was certain Forensic Science is not what I wanted. That’s when my path was clear and I was sure I wanted to do genetics. There were hiccups along the way. Many times, I thought maybe I should quit. I was having trouble with chemistry. It was very hard to put those abstract thoughts together. So I thought maybe I should major in English. I loved literature. I loved reading. I would read all the time when I was younger. I would just write because people wanted me to and whatever they wanted me to write, I wrote.  People would say to me, you write eloquently. And in college I used to make some money writing papers. It was a nice trait, but not a desire.  I was on the verge of quitting, then the right person came along to set me straight. I found an academic advisor who was actually helpful. She pushed me and asked to join the Genetics Club at the university and that not only helped, it changed me. Finding all these resources actually helped me get over the bump with chemistry and other classes.  And I finally graduated with a Bachelor of Science in Molecular Genetics in 2007.
CKC	Five years in OSU and what’s up next?
KM	I felt burned out so I was not applying to grad school. Even though at the back of my mind I felt it was a mistake. And I don’t know if I would have succeeded then or if it would have been better for me. I don’t know. I decided to start applying for the workforce.
CKC	Job hunt, how did that go? Was it difficult to find a job?
KM	After my graduation it was about 10 months before I found a job that I could apply my degree towards. When I started searching for employment, the United States was going through the worst economic recession. I even applied to retail jobs to at least pay off the student loan debts.  These jobs were not paying enough. However, there were people who were able to find jobs right after college; they were smart and started looking earlier, most likely like a year in advance or so. But I was busy and focussed on trying to graduate, so that was a factor why it was a delay for me to find a real position. It didn’t stop me from applying though and I ended up getting called for interviews and finally started working as a Lab Technician in a small biotech firm.
CKC	How was your first stint?
KM	The job itself wasn’t hard. It was the manager. It was very difficult navigating personalities there, mainly hers. Micromanaging and the attitude of my boss did not set me well there. It was the first time in my life I wanted to quit, and this was just being on the job for two weeks. See, I’m not a quitter, but this place, I just felt defeated all the time. At first I thought it was me, I said to myself, ‘I am doing everything right.’  I began to spiral into some type of depression. Losing weight. Experiencing hair loss. I weighed as much as my 12 year old sister at the time, and I was 24 at the time. Luckily, another person joined and they also found it was hard to work in this hostile work culture. It was eye-opening and clear that the problem was not me.  It was a Red Flag and time to find something else soon.
CKC	You commenced looking for a new position.
KM	I ended applying and found an opening back at OSU.  I even took a lower pay, just to get out of my previous spot. I, honestly,  don’t even know how I survived there. It was a learning experience to grow from though. I ended up taking the offer from OSU, and worked under a Radiology Professor for a few years. Then I decided to move into a different lab, and after that my aunt who is a Clinical Research Associate, aka a Monitor  for a Clinical Research Organisation was trying to pull me over to her field.  So I decided that’s where I wanted to transition towards. I did not want to work in the lab anymore. I wanted to get into Clinical Research. In the lab I was putting my genetics education to somewhat use, it just felt very monotonous. I was there for over 3 year and now I needed a change.
CKC	Change means growth and for that you will have to start the process again. The hunt is on.
KM	Oh yeah! I later was able to find a position in the Clinical Trials office (CTO) at OSU, doing data entry. I was transcribing medical records into electronic databases for Sponsors that were funding clinical trials for some of the most serious cases of cancer. It was kind of boring, the typing part, but the interesting thing is that you on a daily basis meet medical patients through their data. I  read their records and their treatment plans, and as part of clinical trials, you find out how they feel, what’s going on, do they think this drug is helping, and somehow you connect with them without ever meeting them face-to-face. I transcribed for  a lot of oncology studies. I saw how many cycles of chemo the patients underwent, connected with them.  Then one day as I enter the records, I see the patient passed away and/or the disease progressed. I hated the data entry part, but reading records made me want more of this connection.  In the CTO,  I made lots of connections with the visiting monitors who come to check on trials. One day I asked them, ‘how can I get into pharmaceuticals?’ That was my turning point, when a monitor decided she would mentor me into getting into her field. I started applying again. This time, a recruiter called and we had a good conversation and an interview date was set for the following week. I rocked that interview. I got the call from the recruiter on the same day, ’they want to hire you.’ I was overwhelmed and he said, ‘there is only one problem, they want you to move to Chicago.’
CKC	You are an Ohioan. It’s a big shift.
KM	Yes. Now I was only married for a year. Rohit & I had a chat and we decided we will take a leap of faith. We called our parents and told them and they were like, ‘take it’, and  I know my parents were sad to see me go. But they were happy for me. I have been at my present company ever since. Even though the contract was with an external company, I got into a full time position less than 5 months within my current company. Coming in, I soaked everything up like a sponge. I was doing good work. I was loving my job, making a new life in a new state, had my first baby girl, Eliza, life was just getting exciting. I got pregnant with my boy, Eli, two years later. At that point things were accelerating, I was growing both personally and professionally.

CKC———–	But…
KM	But then everything went spiralling down, out of control. While  pregnant with Eli, I was feeling extremely tired and in a lot of pain. Unusual pain that differed from when I was pregnant with Eliza. I remember  before I went on maternity leave, my coworkers and good friends at work would see me and they were like, ‘Keisha, you should go home. Why are you coming in? Why are you here?’ They were concerned. Apparently, I didn’t look too good to them either. One, I had to come in because I had to work, and two, I thought it was normal because of the pregnancy. I told myself and everyone, I am fine and at that point I couldn’t even walk, I was wobbly, and once I remember my colleague pushed me in the rolling chair down for office meeting. She told me, ‘you need to go home’.  I keep insisting, ‘It’s just pregnancy. This pregnancy is different.’ It was nothing like my first pregnancy. Eliza’s pregnancy was easy, and I kept saying, ‘it’s just because he is a boy’ and I thought as well.  I didn’t know what was in store for me.
CKC	What’s going on?
SM	Around Christmas, things started getting worse. I started getting pain in my legs and back. I was in pain. Constant pain all the time. Rohit and I decided to go with his parents to Kerala, South India in January. Thinking the weather would be good for the pregnancy. During that trip,  one memory I have was that  I could not put Eliza’s hair in a ponytail. My hands were hurting and so swollen. It was difficult to move or breathe. And it was when I delivered Eli that my disease manifested itself.
CKC	What was the diagnosis?
KM	Systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE). It was hard, man. A chronic, autoimmune disease with no cure. You can control it with medication, but it will not go away. It sort of changed my life from here on.
CKC	I don’t know what to ask now.
KM	It was hard. Especially the first months of that year. When Rohit, Eliza and I returned back to the states from our trip to Kerala, it was a revolving door, in and out of the hospital for pain, complications of not breathing, and trying to figure out what is going on in my body. Then it happens. A young mother, delivering her baby 8 weeks before the due date. Honestly, the doctor saved Eli’s life and my life. I had to have an emergency c-section, and then 4 days later, I received news that I needed heart surgery because fluid was surrounding my heart sac. All on top of knowing my baby is in NICU. Talk about devastation. I cried upon receiving the news in my mother-in-law’s arms. Then the next 2 hours, I’m under anaesthesia and in the OR. I still didn’t have an exact diagnosis. So I was told, it’s RA, rheumatoid arthritis. After weeks in the hospital , I came home, but not with my little guy. He’s still fighting to thrive in the NICU. Trying to stay hopeful because I have Eliza and Rohit to still love and prayers for Eli to give so we can be together. Fast forward to Easter Sunday, this was supposed to be one of the happiest days for our family. We get to bring Eli home from the hospital. Though that didn’t happen. Instead, I get readmitted to the hospital for double pleurisy. I couldn’t breathe. I had a fever, and I’m literally losing it at the hospital from crying to cursing at the nurses to give me something for the pain. After what seemed like hours, my pcp, rheumatologist, and cardiologist, told me that I’ve had multiple organ involvement among other criteria being met, for SLE aka lupus. My heart sank and then they told me I had to start chemotherapy that day. As the radiology assistants/nurses began to insert my PICC line in my arm, I sobbed the entire time. I cried so much, they thought they were hurting me. I reassured them that I wasn’t feeling any pain from their operation, but just to hear this news and to start chemo was painful enough. The male assistant held my hand tightly, and tried his best to relieve me of this burden.  After my first weeks of weekly chemo, I was overwhelmed with pain. ‘I am in pain 24/7. I am having a hard time breathing’. The only relief I felt was sleeping. I woke up looking forward to going back to sleep. I felt so bad for Rohit because he was trying to be my rock, caretaker, provider for me and manage Eliza. Maybe after several days, Eli was able to come home. During this time  I knew I was depressed and I would tell my mom,’I don’t want to wake up’.  Like ever. The pain was hard and newly living with lupus was just harder.
CKC	I have no words. That must have been very hard.
KM	Yeah! It took a long time to be hopeful. My family helped and were supportive, they rallied around, they helped. Amma, my mother-in-law, was amazing during this time.
CKC	How are you now?
KM	I am not a spring chicken anymore. I am stable. My doctors are keeping me healthy and medication keeps me moving. My kids move me forward. In the morning there is this stiffness, I don’t really focus on it now. I am busy with kids, getting them ready, to school and daycare, I work and my mind is always elsewhere. I don’t really have body self awareness,  unless it’s excruciating pain, but for now I just keep it moving.  I am seeing a rheumatologist and as I am at the higher end of my medication, it’s been keeping me stable. Maybe we will taper it down. If this was a year ago I would say, ‘A DEFINITE NO.’ Now if you ask me,  I don’t know, we will see. I don’t want to rush into it. Hopefully maybe within the year maybe I will be ready to taper it down.
CKC	How did your employer support you during this time?
KM	They were extremely supportive and very accommodating. They kept my spot until I had to go on long-term disability. Lupus is unpredictable and the doctors did not feel comfortable releasing me after all the hospitalisations after the chemo treatment happened.  When I first was ill, it was during my maternity leave for Eli’s delivery. Then I was sick again and was not able to return to work, then they had to hire a new person for my spot as I had to go on long term disability.  That was hurtful only because it was saying goodbye forever. I had to send Rohit to clean my desk. Usually meant, that person is not coming back to the office. I understand, they had to fill that position and they cannot just leave it. Even though I was hoping and praying, I can come back soon and when I get better hopefully they will have my spot still. That was sad, having to let go, and not knowing if ever I will be able to come back or work again.  All these happened, not on my terms but on my body terms. It’s a constant battle I have on a daily basis while dealing with this illness.
CKC	Once you got all clear from your docs, that means you will have to apply for jobs again.
SM	Yup. Once the doctors finally released me to work again, I began applying. I had a couple of interviews. One interview with a competitor specifically went well. There was a person I knew who could vouch for what good worker I was and I was about to transition into a project management role where I would be running the trial. This has been on my goal list for a few years before my illness took a toll on me.  Unfortunately, I had to back down because of my illness again. That was heartbreaking.  Once I got stable again, I started applying again and also applied within my old company and I got lucky and was offered a new position with a much better prospect for growth. I went back, it’s a new role but similar task.
CKC	Are you still based in Chicago? Plans to head back to Ohio?
KM	I am now based in Houston, Texas. We  moved from Chicago over this summer.
CKC	It was only a five hour drive to Ohio. Houston is a long way from home. What prompted the move?
KM	The move to Texas was really simply because we got tired of the cold weather and being cooped up in our townhome in Chicago due to the pandemic. When we tried looking for a home big enough,  with a backyard, two office spaces, or at least 5 bedrooms, it was difficult and pricey. Houston wasn’t even on our list to move to.  It was really Dallas or Austin,  but nothing panned out. It just so happened that my brother-in-law and his wife talked us into considering it.
CKC	You are back at work now?
KM	Yes. Working 100% remotely. When I was offered the new position it was partially remote, and I only had to go to the office twice a week. Once Covid became a pandemic, it was imperative that I stay remote.  I am on Immunosuppressants, which makes me more at risk, so I put in a request to my manager, and told her ‘I am not able to come into the office’. With my illness, simple things like people sneezing or coughing put my health at risk and build my anxiety in the office. She said ‘I could go remote’, and offered me to go remote fully. I would probably have waited longer to go remote if Covid never happened, but it worked out well for me and us as a family.
CKC	You have been in your company for the last 6 years. You had to slow down due to your illness, I am sure there is room for progress.
KM	Yes. I want to be the one managing the trials one day. The goal was always to progress in that direction when I started. I am thankful that I am able to come to work now. When I got sick, I was not even able to tell if I was going to come back to work. I was planning for the worst and thought it would probably be a while before I could get back into work.
CKC	Aspiration for the future?
KM	Career-wise, I still WANT to run Clinical Research trials. Prior to this move, I had a little bit of motivation in myself. I have been reading Jack Canfields, Success Principles. Some of the things I read in the book gave me more to think about and find myself again.  The book says, to be flourishing, you have to take 100% accountability for everything you undergo in your life. It says, “what I think, say, and do is required to become intentional and aligned with my purpose, my values, and my aims. And to achieve aspired results, one must substitute complaining with making requests and taking action.“ I have decided to improve myself and put all those thoughts to action, setting goals for myself and my career. I am working to get out of my bubble and start networking more. As I am looking for progression, I need help, support and guidance. I also realised that I needed a Mentor and I cannot do this alone.  I have made friends wherever I go. During the course of the last fourteen years in my career and life, I have befriended so many people, and in some of the studies I have worked on in the past, I have befriended many Project Managers. I found a mentor that I have worked with in the past. She was my first Project manager on a trail I worked on. I know how she works and she is consistent and thorough. I heard other project managers refer to her as  the Study Guru. I recently asked her to be my mentor. She has been helping me.  There was a position opened within her department. So I applied.  Just to get that interview and to get a do over I was happy.
CKC	So did you get the position?
KM	I got the offer to now become a Study Management Associate. I finally have been given the opportunity to manage a trial. I’m ecstatic.
CKC	This is brilliant. You deserve it. And what are your personal aspirations?
KM	I want to have more kids. But my doctors and mostly everyone, especially Rohit, advises me not to as it’s a risk. I have to come to terms with it and take care of myself. Also, I have to find a hobby.
CKC	How do you balance work and family?
KM	That’s a good question. Career wise you have to create that balance, and keep that balance. Period. Although at times, when I try to give myself a hard stop, it eases and spills over. This makes it harder for myself in the evening and the next day. So sometimes I end up working overtime which cuts into my life. I am working on making the balance right. If you find someone with the master plan for this, please send me their contact info.

CKC———–	I sure will. You had an intercultural marriage.
KM	Yes. South Asian American and Black American. Rohit and I have known each other since 2003. It’s 17 years now. We started dating in 2006. For my parents it was about ‘is his heart in the right place for me,’ and why is he taking so long to propose? After six years he proposed and we got married in 2013. After eight years, we are blessed with two kids and have two wonderful families. It’s been a long journey.   I have to say I lived with my in-laws, Amma and Appa for three months. During that time Amma taught me how to make Chai, Kerala Fish Fry, Vegetable Thooran. Eliza loves South Indian food. Eli only likes chicken wings. So dinner was always ‘what am I going to cook?’ especially since Rohit only liked South Indian food. Living with Amma I finally learned how to cook Rohit’s favourites. Even learned how to make Pappadam. It only took five years.
CKC	You have visited South India.
KM	I love going to Kerala. My first visit in 2014 was memorable. Even with the second with all those difficulties with my pregnancy, my time in Kerala was joyful. I love the food and I felt I belonged. It was amazing.
CKC	Final question. What would you tell an 18 year old Keisha?
KM	It’s really hard. I would tell her to explore more. Maybe tell her to explore a different major career wise. Ask her to go into Journalism. Urge her to find more about her family history and keep a record of that. You think you are invincible. I will also tell her to be hopeful.
CKC	Thank you for sharing your life so far with us. I know it was not easy but I am glad you chose to be open. There are so many out there searching for that one story of endurance and survival, a story where someone who has gone through tests like yourself. Through all these trials of life, Keisha you have come out brighter and I am sure soon you will running your own clinical trials. I wish only the best for you. Always.
SM	Thank you for giving me this opportunity to share my triumphs and trials. It’s been an honor to be one of the requested interviewees. I hope that your platform brings motivation to and uplifts others to be the best versions of themselves and to stay positive in the midst of adversity. Thank you again!

Follow Keisha Mathew

A candid discussion about the most rooted fear and how to deal with it.

K. Syamala

Blaming others for the trashy life does nothing good. As a child, I was very passionate about riding bicycles and I hoped to ride it too. To my school. However, I couldn't do it. The desire itself was nipped in the bud. I scare my parents, the societal taboo. Later I was punished and judged for having feelings, desires which didn't revolve around others. From childhood, I have been taught that everyone else should be my priority. You're doing something that no one in your family has done before, and are not accepted.  

That didn't stop me from wishing to do things my way. Self-help, self-reliance, and self-love are my power tools. It may sound silly and mean to others. I conquer my world of little happiness by putting my soul into it, gaining momentum. I understood no one would come and help me willingly. I know I am not an alien creature who is born perfect. 

Priya Rajendran

My most innate fear was and is losing my son to my ex-husband (separated). This fear started right after my son’s birth when my ex-husband started gaslighting me saying that I am not capable of looking after my son. Each time he disagreed with me (before slamming doors and walking out for days together), he would repeat this statement, ‘kids need their mothers only until the age of 7 years. After that, the child doesn’t need her.’ He would narrate incidents of his colleagues’ divorce cases where children were separated from their mothers. Multiple incidents happened when he used that fear to make me do things. For instance, if I became late in packing for an overnight trip to his native, he would say he is taking my son away at daybreak when I was sleeping. He would add he did not care if I packed my bags or not. His statement haunted me even after I walked out of my marriage. His silence during our separation period killed me further. In my head that fear overshadowed me, making me feel stuck! Each time I woke up with a tremor and cold sweat – always checking if my son was sleeping next to me. My fears spiralled into thoughts, ‘what if my son would choose his father over me? What if my ex forcibly took him away from me?’ 

Now I have overcome that fear after I made myself emotionally stronger. I underwent hypnotherapy and Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. My close friends became my pillar of strength and slowly I lost that fear by talking to them. I will not deny that the fear is completely gone. It does rear its ugly head occasionally at my lowest points, but I do a lot of self-talk and listen to a lot of music. I started writing again too. It helped me to a large extent in coping with these thoughts. They say time is the best healer and helps reduce the intensity of the fears (not remove completely) and make scars fade (not eliminate them). My renewed self-confidence has made me stronger and helped me cope with my fears now. So, even if this thought appears randomly, I have the confidence to shake it off. 

Stella Thomas

Of the many things, I am seriously scared of failures. As a girl child, you are taught and told, or rather that you have to be certified, perfect in everyone’s eyes. No other perception is allowed or accepted. Right from your looks, dressing, grades, social appearance, your ability to run a house, your control over emotions, your tonality, and the list goes on and on. In the journey of acquiring this certificate, I have realised I was so scared of failing. Then came a point where everything started floundering in life. They say your growth doesn't happen when you are meditating on a yoga mat, it happens amid conflict, or when you are angry or scared, and or when you are thrown off balance. You hit rock bottom and you give yourself a push with all your might. You find to catch your breath. That's your growth. 

It has not been an easy journey to how I discovered to manage my fear. It took me years of unlearning and relearning to stand back with my head held high. Self-motivation, affirmations, me time, self-care, and on and on goes the rituals. Forgive yourself and know that healing is an everyday process. Yet grateful for all the very many lessons I had in my life because they helped me to know myself better. 

Lakshmi Dinamoni

I am scared to Feel. Don't take me to be Lady Stoneheart. I can laugh out loud when I am with friends, have heated debates with friends & strangers, or burst into tears during my daily commute. I am not talking about momentary reactions to a situation. But genuinely feeling all those myriad of emotions in their genuine sense. I have taken years to train myself to protect myself from heartaches & rehabilitation. How did I do that? By teaching myself not to feel anything. 

I have successfully reached a stage where the only emotions that I know are - Hunger & Tiredness. Every other emotion is just 'Meh!'. When I sat down to write this article, I realised that I have been translating all emotions into two - Hunger & Tiredness. Feeling low? Let us have French Fries! 
Feeling happy? Let us order some desserts. 
Want to break free? Let us have a drink. 
Even when Kiddo expresses her affection, I find it extremely difficult to reciprocate. Thankfully for me, Kiddo has grown to understand that I cannot express my emotions like any normal being. Maybe with Kiddo's help (and my therapist's), I will relearn how to feel.

Introducing to you, Performing Artist, Dance Educator, Researcher, Student, Founder & Director, Natyaloka School of Indian Dance, Swaroopa Unni.

When asked if she could take a walk back to the last ten years and document what a decade resembled to establish as a Performing Artist, that’s where our journey began. In south India, growing up in the city of spices, Swaroopa was surrounded by dance and music. At the tender age of four, she walked into the world of dance and since then, her life has never stayed the same. 

A sea-change to Dunedin, New Zealand in 2010 brought in the most immeasurable transformation within herself. Swaroopa was determined to establish herself as a Performing Artist in New Zealand. For this, she worked tirelessly to discover herself, her art, and her growth was in the making. In this passage, she founded the first and only Indian dance school in Otago that trains in Bharatanatyam. 

With over 20 years of expertise in Indian classical dance, Swaroopa is a trained Bharatanatyam, Kuchipudi, Mohiniyattam, Folk, and Kathak dancer. She has collaborated with musicians from India, Hip-Hop Artists, Taonga Pūoro artists, and Taiko drums percussion artists from New Zealand and many more. It’s worth noting, she has started learning Māori.

In a span of ten years, Swaroopa has not only built awareness of south India’s distinct art forms in New Zealand but also made herself a part of the Dunedin community, making it her home and flourishing here as an Artist and teaching dance to a new generation of artists. No wonder, she was acknowledged as “Our Women: 125 of Dunedin’s Extraordinary Women” in the Otago Museum’s exhibition marking the 125th year of suffrage in New Zealand. Swaroopa is brilliant and inspiring, and she is a woman to watch out for. Let’s find out how aspiring to own her own chocolate factory ended by founding her own dance school.

Let’s find out how aspiring to own her chocolate factory resulted in founding her dance school. Joining us in Conversation is Swaroopa Unni,
Performing Artist, an Indian classical & contemporary dancer and choreographer, Otago, New Zealand. 

A conversation with Chippy & Swaroopa Unni,
Founder, and Director, Natyaloka School of Indian Dance, Otago, New Zealand. 

CKC ———–	How are you, Swaroopa? You are an artist, was a full-time employee, and now a mother too. First, how is motherhood treating you?
SU	Great. Thank you and we are all doing great. Yes, I am a mother now. Yes. Life-changing, yes . My daughter’s name is Nakshathra. Once the pandemic hit New Zealand, I knew it would be a different scenario. We will have to handle everything ourselves and we continued to do so.
CKC	It must have been hard on you. How did you manage to balance it all?
SU	Pandemic and a baby and life in lockdown in New Zealand were challenging. During the initial few months, it was overwhelming. I missed the warmth and support of my family who couldn’t be with us. But at the same time, I also realise that we are very lucky to be alive and well. Nakshathra’s grandma’s and pa’s have not met her yet. But video chats have helped us connect with each other. So basically we are all living in an online community for now.
CKC	Glad to know you are adjusting to a new life altogether.
SU	My wish is for life to go back to normal. Back to how things were. We all managed to balance it all well. But I cannot wait to have our lives back to normal.
CKC	Wish the same. Let’s start. If I ask you ‘who is Swaroopa?’ How will you define yourself?
SU	In a nutshell, ‘Performing Artist’. I am an Artist, Dance Educator, Dance researcher, a Dance student, a part-time employee, and now, a mother. That’s me. These define me. Also, I am the Founder and Director of Natyaloka School of Indian Dance which is the only Indian dance school here in Otago Region and I teach Bharatanatyam. I have also become an Artist in Residence with a few major schools in Dunedin And, I am also a dance student, who is continuing to learn dance in-depth and building myself as a Performing Artist as much as possible. Learning never stops. I am currently training under Dr Rajashree Warrier and Nrithya Pillai for Bharatanatyam and Guru Nirmala Panicker for Mohiniyattam. I am also learning Marga Nritta Karanas with Vithya Arasu.
CKC	Quite an impressive resume. How did this all happen? Take me through your life. From the beginning.
SU	I grew up in Kerala. To be specific in Kozhikode, South India. My whole life, childhood, and schooling until under graduation were all there. My family still lives there.
CKC	When did dance enter your life?
SU	In my family there was a tradition where when we turned 4 years old, we were introduced to dance and music education. I did my ‘Arangetram’ when I was 9 years old and started Mohiniyattam and Kuchipudi thereafter. I was trained in Bharatanatyam, Mohiniyattam and Kuchipudi at Nrithyalaya School of Indian Classical Dance run by the renowned and beautiful artist Kalamandalam Saraswathi. For the first five years in that dance school I trained under Kalamandalam Vinodhini and later trained under Kalamandalam Saraswathi herself. I continued as a student and an artist in the performance troupe until I turned 20 years old with a lot of love and dedication. During my school years,I was also trained in folk dance by the wonderful Job Master from Thrissur. Then, I had to move to Coimbatore for post-graduation and for 2 years I had to discontinue.  Those two years without dance were quite challenging for me.
CKC	Growing up, what did you want to be? Did you have any aspirations?
SU	As I was growing up, I had different ideas.  Oh! My first dream job ‘I wanted to own a Chocolate Factory’.  That was when I was in my 5th grade. My thought was ‘if I had my factory, I would never have to ask anyone to get me chocolates’, I could have as much as I wanted and as much as I pleased. Anytime, All the time, Chocolate for me.
CKC	That’s not a bad dream. For a ten year old you were thinking very logically. Kudos to you. Then what happened?
SU	Doctor. I wanted to be a doctor but that phase got over when I reached high school. Later, I was fascinated by history and then I thought maybe I should be an Archeologist. I was a good student but had difficulties with science, especially Physics, Chemistry, and also Math. The options were simple after 10th grade. For Pre-Degree, choose the first group, you will become an Engineer, choose the second and you will find your way to become a Doctor. So when the time came to choose a track to the future, even though I loved Biology I did not prefer it and was sure I didn’t want to do Engineering, so opted out of that as well. I was very very sure about what I didn’t want. So the question was what next?  And guess what? All through my school years I was involved in dance competitions, mostly group competitions. The only time I went for solo competitions was when I was in Grade 10 for which I won prizes at State Level competition. And you know how competitions are a huge part of our school lives in Kerala. I was moulded as an artist by all those experiences too.
CKC	What next?
SU	Those times there were not many options to choose from among courses in Kerala . So if not first and second, the only other option was the third group. It was a mishmash of a lot of subjects. People presume it is taken by those who are below average in studies and if you didn’t get through the 1 and 2 and it was your last and only option.  I had great grades and I remember my friend’s parents advising me ‘why are you wasting time with the third group. It’s your future, and if you choose any of the other options you can either become a doctor or at least an engineer. And you will get solid and stable job opportunities with it’. Stable income, that’s what you should aim for, that was what was engraved in our brains those times.  After two years of Pre-Degree I chose B.Com for undergraduate studies, and then I planned to go for an MBA. That was the pathway set, by whom I don’t know, but it was the way forward and I thought I will do so.
CKC	I have heard college life in Kerala is exciting for students who are artists. How was it for you?
SU	Even though I was a Commerce student, dance was my only subject during my college days. To be frank, I was always dancing. In an academic year, if it starts in June, I get out of the class by the end of July or by August and it’s then dancing practice for university competitions. There were so many competitions around the clock, and I was just prepping one after the other. Inter-collegiate, University-based competitions, independent competitions, and then representing the college. By the time we get back to class, it will be December. The college always understood that ‘I am away with practice or competition representing the college.’ Then came College Union Elections and I was elected the Fine Arts Secretary during my final year.  We never had semester-based exams, it was just one final exam that happened at the end of the academic year . We had sufficient study leave, so it never affected my studies. It was easy and tension-free. I juggled my dance classes, performances and all college events with a lot of happiness. I didn’t want anything more.
CKC	What is the next step? As planned an MBA?
SU	During B.Com, I got introduced to the world of media. I managed to do a number of anchoring stints. I handled and anchored TV Shows and also Live shows as well. I don’t know where I got the courage, not sure if I will do it now but I did it those days. So I thought maybe Media Studies is a good option,  so with my limited knowledge I felt maybe Mass Communication could be a great path ahead.
CKC	That’s how you landed in Coimbatore.
SU	Yes, I joined for a Master of Arts in Mass Communication. I could not continue my dance. It was rough two years without what I always had, dance. I missed dancing, I could not practice and life was quite dull.
CKC	So now you’re heading for a career in Media.
SU	Yes. After graduation, I moved to Bangalore. There I worked for Indian Express & later with Bangalore Mirror. But I couldn’t live without dance. So I joined a new dance school in Bangalore – Abhinava. I learned Kathak under another renowned artist couple Nirupama-Rajendra. I was part of the Abhinava Dance Company, and toured across the country. There, I was trained in handling different aspects of being a professional dancer.
CKC	All these while you never had thought of dance as a career.
SU	It was never in my radar. College And dance schools nurtured my artistic drive within me. But the fact there is no career in dance was always blocking myself from pursuing or even thinking about a career in dance. So I believe, I also went behind a stable career like everyone else.

CKC ———–	So now your life is in Bangalore as a Copy Editor. How and when did your life shift to New Zealand? What prompted that move?
SU	Siddharth. We met during my postgraduate days. After our graduation, we both took up jobs. Siddharth moved to Chennai and me to Bangalore. It was a long-distance relationship for a long time. Siddharth always wanted to work with wildlife and was passionate about natural history filmmaking. So he decided to do further studies, either at Otago University or in the USA. We got married in 2009. By then Siddharth was accepted to Otago University, he came here first, and I followed.
CKC	Wow. Love makes things happen. Now, you are in an entirely different county, how were the initial days settling?
SU	In 2010, I moved to New Zealand. I am in a city called Dunedin in the South island. Beautiful city, the architecture and cultural heritage is absolutely wonderful. But super cold! I felt that Dunedin was completely cut-off from the rest of the world, amazingly isolated. In the first few months, I loved it here. So calm, peaceful, and serene.  Then slowly loneliness creeps in. Before it dragged me down, I made sure I pushed myself, so I started to build my life here, and after giving a lot of thought, I aspired to establish myself as an Artist. I made myself what I am today with my dance. I made my life here with my dance. It’s the truth.
CKC	How did you build yourself?  Dance was never in your vision. How did you decide this is what you wanted to do in life?
SU	I never had ambition as such, I didn’t have one and if I had, it kept changing, it’s only after I moved to New Zealand that I knew I wanted to do something with dance. But what? As I was figuring it out I realised, all this while I have been dancing, and I never thought much about pursuing a career in dance because dance is never a stable career.  I thought to myself, ‘I am not sure how but I want to establish myself as an Artist’
CKC	Establishing yourself as an ARTIST, how did that go? How challenging was it?
SU	When I came here, it was a huge culture shock. It’s a student town.  And people of my cultural background were hardly here. There were about ten families among the Dunedin residents that were my people. In the University nearby there were students from different cultural backgrounds but they were cut off from the actual community. Once I had a clarity on what I wanted, I reached out to the Dunedin community, and there were some wonderful artists. I would go and introduce myself as a Bharatanatyam Dancer and people didn’t understand what Bharatanatyam is. For them, Indian dance means Bollywood dance. So I was always perceived as a Bollywood dancer.
CKC	Oh! That’s hard. Must have been had to handle.
	Initially, I used to be disturbed by this assumption. Then I thought, ‘Bollywood dancing is also a style of Indian dance and it’s a lot of fun. So, I will choose this route and take on Bollywood dancing and see where I go.’ The dance community here was very helpful and they invited me to perform for them. During one such performance, I introduced myself and opened my routine with Bollywood dance and ended with Bharatanatyam. I planned in a way they can see the difference and the similarities  in the two dance forms. I always explain in the beginning that ‘I am going to do a mix of two styles and start with Bollywood and end with Bharatanatyam, which is a south Indian dance form.’ I will explain the meaning of my performance. Then they see there is a different dance form.  That’s how I started breaking into the wider Dunedin community. Later, I started giving volunteer dance workshops. Again, people expect Bollywood dance,  so I start with a two-minute Bollywood dance and move on to Bharatanatyam and end with  exploring hand gestures in Bharatanatyam. Slowly people realised and accepted that there is another dance from India that I practice apart from Bollywood. So now, my art reached out to more people.
CKC	Is that the beginning of your school?
SU	You may say so. It was not intended, so a few parents from the South Asian community approached me and asked if they could send their kids to dance class. Initially I didn’t think much about starting a school. I wanted to be an artist more than be a teacher. To be a dance educator  is a huge responsibility. But then everyone insisted and I thought I will give it a try.  In October 2011, I founded my own dance school called Natyaloka School of Indian Classical Dance. I started dance lessons in a spare room in my apartment with eight students.
CKC	It’s 2021. This is huge, you just crossed ten years.
SU	Yes, and for our tenth anniversary we celebrated by being part of Dunedin Arts Festival. Today, Natyaloka is a multicultural dance school. Over time, I moved into my own dance studio.  For the many parents, sending kids to my class  was a way to connect to their roots, and culture and for those students who are not from a South Asian heritage it is pure appreciation of the dance form and wanting to know more.
CKC	Now your school is open, how are you succeeding as an artist?
SU	In 2012, I did my first solo performance for the Dunedin Fringe Festival. Siddharth did my light and sound design for the show.  I worked hard on publicity work. As part of the promotion, I went around and did a lot of push to promote my show. At the volunteer workshops, I gave my details about my upcoming performance and also did door to door campaigns. I was the only South Asian artist, a brown artist, a minority artist in the Festival. I understood, there was quite a lot of curiosity but I was not sure how many people would turn up. We sold 10 tickets via online sales and a handful of complimentary tickets were handed out. I said to myself, ‘it’s alright, 10 is good. THIS IS IT.’ I was happy but then came the heavy downpour. I thought, ‘Now the chances of the 10 confirmed are also in question.’ I would be really at peace if they turned up. My heart beat was audible to everyone around me. I was nervous.  Suddenly I saw Siddharth rushing and coming to the green room, ‘did the organisers cancel my show because of no turn out?’ I asked him. He said, ‘no, we have a problem, we have to turn people away. The hall is full and I am trying to find seating for a few more people who have come till now.’ It was a small theatre, it could only accommodate 80 people. ‘All seats are taken. I managed to add a few more chairs, also convert the passage and the steps as seats and now the theatre is filled,’ Siddharth told me.  Somehow we managed to get some extra chairs and we managed to squeeze in more people and the rest we had to turn away. It felt bad but we didn’t have any other option. All came and were curious to know what this is. I did Bharatanatyam and Kuchipudi together. People did not realise the difference. That day I decided I will concentrate on one dance form. And I chose to focus on Bharatanatyam.
CKC	The fringe festival changed your life around.
SU	Yes, it helped me create an identity as an Artist in Dunedin.
CKC	Who are your students?
SU	It’s a multicultural classroom of  students from the age of five onwards. Age has no limit. Apart from the Indian community, some of my dancers are French, Irish, British, Americans, Sri Lankans, Bangladeshis, People of Indian Origin, from South Africa, Malaysia, & Fiji who have never been to India. Some join to connect to their roots, for some it is only now that they got a chance to learn the dance form, for some it is about being part of a creative community, for some it is a celebration of physical movements. So many different reasons but the link is DANCE.
CKC	Age is not a barrier.
SU	Youngest student I have just turned five years old, and the oldest is above sixty. Natyaloka is a safe space for anyone who wants to learn dance in depth and be who they are without any inhibitions.

CKC ———–	Dance School is open during weekends only.
SU	Yes, only weekends. I do take during weekdays when I can squeeze in some time for some classes.
CKC	Day Job. All these 10 years you had worked a day job.
SU	Performing Artistry is never a solid career, and dance is an expensive medium of art. So I knew I had to have another job to sustain my dance. So I let a stable income come from a day  job to establish myself as an artist.  I worked full time for 5 years so I can freely do my dance. Even though I was successful in getting grants from funding bodies, to sustain as an artist, you have to have a job here. Especially my kind of artistry. Another point is that Indian dancing is very expensive. From music to costumes to jewellery and apart from that, when you are planning a performance, you have to also foot in money for finding and hiring the venue, the stage, the lighting, the equipment, the sound system, everything you have to fund. So a job helps me with some sort of back up. Also helps pay my bills. After having Nakshathra, I started with a new part-time job. It’s a lot of balance, you have to do as an artist, especially when you don’t have many opportunities, as well. Paid performances are null. Being in Dunedin, you have to hustle all the time. If Artist Residencies are available, I will apply for that. If there are paid performance opportunities or workshop opportunities or there are dance festivals, I apply for them as well. That’s how I sustain my career here.
CKC	It’s not easy being a performing Artist.
SU	Not at all. Not anywhere and especially in Dunedin. And during these pandemic times it’s not at all easy. At times it sure is frustrating in a lot of ways because there are not many opportunities.  Being a niche artist myself and trying to be part of the New Zealand mainstream dance platform, it is a lot of work but something that I am determined about. You have to understand that not many people do this, because it is very hard to get into, to sustain the audience and also to push the audience to come out of their comfort zone and watch me. So I have to get out and get talking and invest time to network. Out of all this, I find networking the hardest to do.
CKC	Was there anyone who encouraged, supported and, cheered for you?
SU	Initial years, I shamelessly used to knock on doors for opportunities. And one of those doors was opened by Alison East – a scholar, educator and a trail blazer! She just took me under her wings and has been absolutely amazing. She is there for all my dance projects – supporting and cheering. Lisa Wilkinson who gave me my first performance opportunity along with her and a few of our peers. I also taught Bollywood at her dance school for 5 years. My first teaching gig! Kathryn Olcott who included me in all dance projects and performances that she organised. So many from the creative community in Dunedin and the wider Dunedin local community as well who always turn up with a lot of goodwill and support. Grateful to all of them. My students, who push me to be a better person and an artist. My family back home, my parents, my brother, especially my mother. From my childhood, taking me to every dance lesson after school to being always there with her silent support at every performance. She has been my strength. Also friends, my Gurus, my fellow artists from all over the world and Siddharth who always asks me questions so I dig in more into my practice.
CKC	Where did you get the courage to knock and seek?
SU	My upbringing was such that ‘if you want something you should approach, you should go for it. No-one else will do this for you, so you should do it by yourself.’ My dad is a go getter and I think I am inspired by his attitude and his style of making things work for him, I think I definitely am inspired by him. To go out, ask and look for opportunities.
CKC	Pure push from your side.
SU	Oh yeah. Constantly pushing is exhausting to be frank. I am from Dunedin and most of the mainstream dance projects happen in Auckland and Wellington. So unless I push myself, I am not part of anything. I know that now, being part of the online world and globally connecting with dance is the thing. But I am not ready to explore that yet.
CKC	Have you collaborated with other Artists?
SU	Yes, I have worked with Sandeep Pillai and Jyolsna Panicker , renowned musicians from India, collaborated with Taonga Pūoro* artists from Dunedin, with Lisa Wilkinson (Hip Hop/Contemporary dance artist), with O-Taiko, a group of percussion artists who play Taiko drums and so many more.  *Taonga pūoro are the traditional musical instruments of the Māori people of New Zealand
CKC	I believe you are leaning a new language now.
SU	Te reo Māori. Yes, I am a basic learner, Te reo Māori is the native language and one of the official languages in New Zealand. I am learning the language to know more about the history of this land that I am living in.
CKC	What is ahead for you?  Your future.
SU	I am influenced by what I see/hear/feel around me. I want to humanise my dance form. Perform stories about socio-political and cultural issues that we face. Explore more feminist stories using my movements. There is this belief that we have to use contemporary dance movements to convey these stories. No. I want to use Bharatanatyam or Mohiniyattam vocabulary to dance these stories with the help of spoken words. I would like to tour with my solo dance theatre Ātete – Resistance in New Zealand and in India and anywhere else globally. I want to continue learning my dance forms more in-depth.
CKC	You said you want to humanise the dance form. How do you achieve it?
SU	Most of the Indian dance forms that we see now have a very complex history. It is a product of nationalist, colonialist, patriarchal ideologies that were used to marginalise the traditional dancing communities of women. A history riddled with caste and class injustices. Learning that history itself has been a huge eye opener for me. From then on, I have been on a quest to dispel the myth that our dance and the dancer are these really traditional, pure, divine women who dances only in the name of God, Sanskritised books and Bhakti. Personally, I want to humanise the dance form and bring it back to a level where the audience can actually interact and not see us as Goddesses. I want to negotiate that space of being part of a mythology or a certain kind of woman – an ideal woman – the docile woman who follows patriarchal or casteist rules . Being a woman myself, I can embody the women’s’ stories.

CKC ———–	How do you handle criticism?
SU	I always try to take what I would like to improve in my craft from the reviews which can be verbal or written. I am all for constructive criticism. You need that constructive feedback to learn and grow. Negative feedback for the sake of negativity can be ignored but it’s hard not to notice. We tend to hang on to it, right? There were negative criticisms that were directed towards me about establishing myself as an artist here, patronising, doubting if I will make it, for sharing more about the complex history of the dance forms, but those kinds of criticisms can actually fuel our ambitions.
CKC	Have you thought of moving away from Dunedin to pursue and for better opportunities?
SU	I have thought about it a lot of times. At the same time, I know I have worked so hard to build my identity here, to create a name for myself, here in Dunedin. And to leave all of that and go one day. I am finding it hard to come to terms with. I don’t know if it will ever happen. Then, one may never say never.
CKC	Speaking of children, what are your dreams and hopes for Nakshatra?
SU	I will let my daughter be what she wants to be. I will definitely give her a taste of all things possible, like arts, music, writing, sports and more.  And let her choose what she wants to pursue. She loves dance, I know that. She has sat throughout my dance school programs and she has enjoyed it without crying or sleeping. But who knows.
CKC	She has one more person to look up to.
SU	Siddharth, yes for sure she can go that way too. He is a Producer now, he is involved in creating and producing works for channels like NATGEO, and Discovery. He makes her watch all these documentaries on nature, wildlife and he shows her all the animals and I have noticed she is keen.
CKC	One last question. What will you tell your 18 year self?
SU	I would tell her to place her passion of being an artist in front, even though it’s a struggle, it’s satisfying. The satisfaction you get from dancing, the adrenaline rush you get from doing a performance,  learning a dance, sharing your knowledge about dance, or learning under more just go ahead and do it. There were a lot of inhibitions that I had, and also had this self doubt within me that I don’t have that much talent. Do I have the talent to teach dance? I will tell my younger self, ‘don’t doubt yourself and just go for it’.
CKC	Well said. You said you prefer a live audience. Everything is online now. Right?
SU	That’s true. I want the audience to interact with my art in close proximity and that is very important for me. I thrive as an artist from that connection with the audience. And yes, for me it makes a big difference. But the last 18 months and the foreseeable future online performing is life. Having a baby during pandemic has kept me a bit busy as a mother and I am currently in pursuit to enter the online platform. I have started reaching out and I am also keeping my fingers crossed. Hopefully, next year we will learn to live with this virus and live performances will also come back to popularity.
CKC	I wish and hope for life to go back to normal. Hope you will soon be in front of a live audience too. Thankyou for sharing your incredible journey. You are truly inspiring, encouraging and amazing.
SU	My pleasure! Chippy, this has been wonderful. Look forward to a better future for all.

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Presenting to you, people person, portfolio manager & a person propelled solely by the inner voice, Smita Scaria.

Driven, intense, and quiet by nature, growing up Smita was focused on her studies, her dance, and was lost in the world of books. From Kolkata to Kochi, the Middle East to Kerala, Bangalore to New Zealand, India to Australia, Smita moved around a lot before finally settling in life. System Analyst to Business Analyst, Business Consultant to Project Manager & now a Portfolio Manager, Smita’s experience of 20 years extends across project lifecycles from negotiations, funding, scheduling, development, resource planning, management, and project completion. And she is the best.

Smita and her inner voice hold a strong connection, ‘if I do not listen to my inner voice, I would be disappointed with myself.’ Smita will eternally listen to her inner call. She has made it through her life because of her internal sensation and judgment.  

The curly, frizzy-haired girl was constantly picked on while growing up. She has learned to love herself, her locks, and she now walks tall with grace and attitude. From figuring out what she wants in life to what she has set for the future, Smita is one woman we all need to follow.

Join us in conversation with Smita Scaria. Discover how the power of her inner voice made her the woman she is today. 

A conversation with Chippy & Smita Scaria, Portfolio Manager, Melbourne, Australia.

Chippy	Hey Smita, How is life down under in the world’s lockdown capital?
SS	We have accepted the new norm. In Victoria by now, we have spent over 200 days in lockdown.
CKC	For a person who is always on the move, this must be challenging. Growing up, you have moved quite a lot.
SS	That’s true, and yes. We’d moved quite a lot. My family lived the first few years of my life in Calcutta. Bengali was the first language I learnt. Initially I didn’t know my mother tongue, Malayalam. When we moved to Kerala, that’s when I learned Malayalam. After four years there, we shifted base to the UAE, and within the Emirates we moved every 2 years. Later during my senior school years I came back to Cochin, and later moved to Bangalore to pursue a Bachelor’s degree in Engineering. After I got married in 2001, I moved to New Zealand to join my husband who was working in Wellington and lived there for around 15 years. We are settled in Melbourne, Victoria currently after a couple of stints back to India in between.
CKC	Interesting. From outside it definitely looks fascinating. All those travels and shifting and moving must have been exciting as well as challenging.
SS	It definitely was.
CKC	Smita, what’s your story? Take me to your early life. What sort of a spirit were you?
SS	I was an introvert, focussed, driven, and a private person. Always focused on studies, my dance, and lost in the world of books.
CKC	Which books were your lifeline as a kid?
SS	I was very much into crime fiction, thrillers, and detective novels. The books I grew up with were Nancy Drew and Famous Five. Books let your mind travel to places you cannot physically. I was very, very thirsty for reading material. I would even read the food label on the back of a jar at the dinner table if there was nothing else to read. I just had to read something all the time. At the moment I am reading ‘The Way of the Seal” by Mark Divine. Over the last year or so during lockdown, I have been able to get back to my reading habit, and I am the better for it!. It opens up your mind to new ideas, thoughts, experiences.
CKC	Because you were always on the move, did you miss out on having friends?
SS	Yes, in ways. I mean I was never the kind of a person who needed a big group of friends. Always one or two friends, and we were very close. But it was not easy to keep in touch with folks with multiple moves including international moves. Things are so much easier with social media now! I am very different now. I would probably be perceived by some people as an extrovert now and tend to be able to connect and relate to a lot of people.
CKC	After your 10th grade did you decide what you wanted to do in life? Or as it happens in Asian culture, did your parents decide your path ahead for you?
SS	No, not really. Up until the 10th grade, I wanted to be a doctor. I wanted to help people, I had all those lofty ideas. You know how it is if you are good at studies in India you are expected to go down the path of either medicine or engineering. So my heart at that time was set on becoming a doctor. Those days we didn’t have Google or any sources for information, so you talk to your grown up cousins for information. I had a couple of cousins who were doctors, specialised in Obstetrics and Gynecology. Both of them had advised me at some point that if I went down the medicine route, I would not have much of a family life.
CKC	Is that the reason you chose Engineering?
SS	As a kid, I remember telling my mother, ‘I don’t want to get married but I want to have kids.’ I have always wanted to have children. Always. So somewhere in my head, the fact that family life will be difficult to accomplish stuck, and so I put the idea of medicine aside and went on to do engineering. I did B.E. Telecommunication from Bangalore.
CKC	How did life progress after studies?
SS	In terms of my career, similar to my life journey, a lot of my moves/choices at the start, were based on what I didn’t want to do. If you think about it, I was already in Engineering, which I wasn’t enjoying. I was thinking, what am I going to do? I want to work and I do want to have a career but what am I going to do? I didn’t really know but I knew what I didn’t want to do.
CKC	How do you know what you want to do?
SS	If it’s not something I feel passionate about, if I don’t have the spark inside and if I am doing it for the sake of doing it, then I lose interest very quickly. I should feel I am making a difference. For example, most of my batch mates went down to programming and got into coding. Coding was interesting but did I want to do it as a full time job,’no’ was my answer. I did know by then I wanted a job that let me work with people primarily.
CKC	So how did you choose your pathway?
SS	At that point of my life, I was not sure what I wanted to do. A job opening as a System Analyst came through. In this role, I was the person in between, connecting the developers and the users. It was an HRMIS system we were developing. That worked out to be the first job. It felt good. I believed my technology skills were utilised, and I was also working with people. So that sort of piqued my interest.
CKC	Well, you figured out what you are interested in.
SS	Sort of, and by then, I got married to George, who was living in New Zealand at that time. Soon after marriage in 2001, I moved with my husband to New Zealand.

Chippy	In New Zealand, were you able to adapt quickly? What were your challenges? Culture shock, finding a job !!!
SS	You know how it is in India, moving base between states is almost like moving between countries, a completely different culture, and language. In New Zealand, adapting was smooth, language was not a barrier  but I was wondering what I was going to do.  Difficulty finding a job was the usual.  I was new to the country and I did not have New Zealand experience. It took me a year to find a job there.  I did stick to my guns and waited for the role that called out to me.  There were people who would tell me ‘why are you being so fussy and why don’t you pick up something and gain experience.’ But I stuck to what I wanted to get into.
CKC	So how did you start over your career in New Zealand?
SS	I had figured out by then that the role of Business Analyst seemed to be closest to what I wanted to do and what I would like to continue to do. One thing I have done when I look for jobs, I do not look at just the job title or position that it comes with. I look at the responsibilities that come with the job description and when I sift through them, do those responsibilities look interesting to me and is there a spark within me when I read them.
CKC	How did you land your first job?
SS	The Business Analyst role I applied for was looking for someone with NZ experience. I lacked NZ experience but I was able to articulate my thoughts and what I would bring to the role. One thing that worked in my favour, I think, were my communication skills. I consistently got through to people and they were able to relate to me. That was a distinct advantage.  My first job was as a Senior Business Analyst in a department within the New Zealand government. That was the first opening in my career there.
CKC	Government job means you are set for life.
SS	True yet after about three years, I decided I wanted more, further exposure across the industry. I had worked in the government sector and had wanted to gain more industry experience, across disciplines. I had just been promoted to a Lead Role within the group and also had a young baby by then. This was, therefore, quite a risk I was taking but was determined to get going.
CKC	Wow…you are a brave soul. How was your professional journey from there on?
SS	I found a contract position as Senior Business Analyst, within the  IT Service Delivery department with one of the banks in New Zealand. My contract work was an infrastructure role completely new to me but it would give me an entry into the banking industry. From there I moved into the space of online banking and then to working with cards – chip profiles and NFC technologies. That’s when NFC Technology for payments was just starting to hit the NZ market. I had the pleasure of designing the chip profiles for contactless payments for the Bank and then was part of the team that were piloting NFC technology on phones so they could be used as payment instruments. Exciting times! Payments technology turned out to be a really exciting space and I absolutely loved it! One of those avenues where one can instantly see how technology impacts the day to day lives of the ordinary person. By this time, I had been in the business analysis space for 10 years and had two young boys.
CKC	You have definitely found your way. Experienced Business Analyst and an expert in what you are doing.
SS	True. At this point and I do actually remember, it was 2012 when that voice inside me started telling me that there was more to do and I needed to do more. I wanted to be able to drive the end outcomes.   When my inner voice got quite loud, I reached out to people within the bank, including my manager, and started having conversations about what other roles I could do.  Project Management was something I had looked at in the past but had put it off because there seemed to be a lot of reporting involved and I was not quite sure I had wanted to do that.
CKC	You are in a very comfortable position now. Making a change, this is a big risk.
SS	It is always scary when you are doing well in a particular role, you are in a comfort zone and the fact that people trust you. You build all this up, and your inner voice tells you to throw all that away and move on to a completely different thing. It sure was a scary move.  But I had to listen to myself. I did tap into the network I had at work, and was offered a Project Manager role for a major transformation program at the Bank. I took up the role with gusto. Some folks saw the role at a promotion, I saw it as a side step. You know how it is when you switch, you often have to start at the bottom in terms of creating trust with your stakeholders and then go from there. Interesting times but I learnt a lot, worked quite hard and had a very supportive network at the Bank.
CKC	What would that mean if you don’t listen to your voice?
SS	If I didn’t listen to my voice, I would end up disappointed with myself, knowing that I am not doing justice to myself. I had to listen to my inner voice. I always do.
CKC	So you were challenging yourself. Every step, every time your inner voice converse, you are setting a new bar for yourself, a challenge to yourself for more.
SS	I do and it also has its challenges. By 2015, my health took a turn for the worse and I decided to take a break for a year. During this time, we decided to relocate to India. I went back and resigned and we moved to India as a family.

Chippy	Relocating to India after almost 15 years in New Zealand, that must have been a big decision. Have you ever had the idea to settle back in India for good?
SS	We actually did. The idea was that we would settle back in Cochin after many years abroad. The plan was that my boys could join the school in India and George and I would find new jobs as well. Closer to family and home, that was the idea. But when we started our life there, none of us settled well, the boys didn’t enjoy school either.  It was tough on all of us for a while and all of a sudden George found a job, but it was in Melbourne, which was further away from what we intended. If it was Dubai or Singapore, it would have been easier but moving alone to Melbourne meant keeping the family apart, so we made the decision to relocate as a family to Melbourne. That was not a career decision but for our family to stay together.
CKC	Did you settle well in Melbourne ?
SS	Actually, we did. I like Melbourne a lot more than Wellington, in many ways. New Zealand is a beautiful country, the people are beautiful, honest, trustworthy.  Australians tend to be straight up with everything. This works for me. I am pretty straight up. I am a lot more comfortable if I can be direct and honest. The weather here compared to New Zealand has worked out to be better for me and the boys. They are happy, healthy and doing well here. They enjoy their school, they were able to make friends and quickly adapted to school and friends here. At the end of the day, it worked out to be a good decision.
CKC	And what about you?
SS	In Melbourne, after settling in I started looking for roles and my first opportunity came up pretty quickly via LinkedIn. A couple of chats and interviews with the then CIO at this global fin tech. I was quite excited to be working for this organization as it would give me exposure into the products and services industry, something I had not done before. I was excited to be part of a great team here.
CKC	Was there room for growth?
SS	There always is, if one is keen on growth. I joined as a Project Manager in 2016 taking on the client delivery face for a key project. Since then I’ve progressed to Program and Portfolio Management roles. I am currently looking after a few clients for Australia and New Zealand on one of our flagship platforms.
CKC	Do you have any future aspirations, you are a Portfolio Manager, what is ahead for you, any aspirations, next five years ? Or it all depends on your inner callings again….
SS	I think so. As I said earlier, I have never really aimed for a particular title. At this stage, I am not thinking of what title I want to have in five years, etc. Only that every day is an opportunity to be better than yesterday.
CKC	It’s not the title.
SS	Yes. I got into my current role quite recently. This could keep me very busy and for quite a while. If something completely different comes along, I am open to it. We will see where we go.
CKC	You are a strong woman and you are very articulate and clear on what you want. You do come out strong, you do know what you are talking about. Did you have to deal with sexism at work?
SS	Sexism is very much there. Anyone who claims it is not there, either is very lucky or is not being honest with themselves. For example, just a couple of years back, it was one of those days where I was working late, and this colleague from work came over and said, ‘you are still here, still working, so who is taking care of the kids and who is cooking’. I am sure he would never ask a man that. Never.
CKC	No man would ever be asked that. Is it a challenge as a woman? Is the tech world a hard place for women ?
SS	Let me be honest, it can be. To thrive you have to be very confident, of who you are. I am not a tech geek, I am not a developer, I am not a specialist techie. I am a generalist, which makes it even more difficult. End of the day, it’s about being really clear and confident and being able to voice your opinions. And to be honest, I was not always this strong.
CKC	I look at you and I see a confident woman. It’s hard to believe otherwise.
SS	It has been a journey from my introverted self to a person who cares deeply about what she does on a daily basis. And that passion and commitment overrides any nervousness or apprehensions. The other day one of my seniors referred to me as a gun!  If I go into a meeting, for example, I am just simply clear on where I need that meeting to go, what are the objectives, what I want to achieve, and what we need to achieve. I have no problem listening to anybody’s feedback. But I will not let someone bully me or corner me. I make sure everybody’s viewpoint is heard, and we get the objective done. It’s never about one person and should never be.
CKC	How did you overcome your apprehensions and gain confidence?
SS	My internal GPS has always been strong, even as a child. That plus life and it’s twists and turns and curveballs. Every twist, turn, curveball, failure, loss, everything is an opportunity to learn. And I have had several opportunities. One of the most pivotal experiences was when I was selected for a Women’s Leadership Training program in New Zealand, which ran for several months. Being in that network and meeting women from a wide spectrum gave me a very unique perspective. We often think because we are from a different culture, we have unique problems. Actually, no. The problems are pretty similar, the intensity might vary a bit. Coming together with other driven women in a safe, focussed, environment was empowering and life changing. Suddenly my mind had been opened to all these different perspectives, different ways of how to frame situations and come to peace with them and/or claim victory over them. The experience also showed me how different we all were. For example, one of the guest speakers at the program was a C.F.O. at that point. She was telling us how at the age of eleven, she decided she wanted to be a C.F.O. She knew she was a numbers person, even at that tender age she had set her sight on the role. She said she knew where she wanted to go and she worked for it. Understanding and respecting differences is critical for success. As a woman, you always have to find people – men/women, within your immediate network who you respect and are potential role models. Having a support network and one that could provide a mentoring aspect is essential. Over the years, I’d realised that every time I took a risk and put myself out there, I got stronger and more confident. The more confident I got, the more I understood myself, and now I know a lot more about what I want. Now, it’s a bit simpler that way. It’s still scary but simpler.

Chippy	I am sorry, I have to say this. I love your curls.
SS	Hahahaha…..it took me so long to accept my hair in all its glory and strength. I have been called “Kapiri”. As you know it used to be a term that people used as an offensive and derogatory term.
CKC	Did you lose confidence because people made fun of your hair?
SS	Oh yeah! Absolutely. Probably from 9th grade to 12 th grade I had zero confidence. My hair, my weight. I used to dance Bharatanatyam upto the 10th grade and I stopped just before 10th grade, as studies were the only priority in our lives that time, and then I piled on weight. My weight, my hair, not being your regular kind of girl who talks to everybody, people always picked on me.
CKC	Must have been difficult teenage years. How did you cope with all this?
SS	To be honest Chippy, I have gone through so many phases, if I think back probably until age 15, I was pretty self centered. I was never arrogant, just lost in my own world. Moving back to Cochin during 11th and 12th grade, that really shook my confidence. The weight and the hair and people. It was a trying time. But the connections and friendships from that phase are still strong after 25 years.  I think I changed when I left home for the first time and went to Bangalore for my under-graduation. My friends back in Cochin used to tell me, ‘you are so much easier to talk to now’. I must have opened up then.
CKC	Hard times but you made it through. Wow!
SS	Chippy, there have been so many things happening throughout life that, I felt every time I took a step further, I kept going down. I had battled with depression for years and I was on medication. One day, I got up, and I decided, ‘I have to change or else I am going to completely lose myself’. I stopped taking the medication, and from there on I have been building myself back up again, brick by brick. Building myself up. When that happens naturally, you become a lot stronger because of whatever you have done.
CKC	Is there anything Smita Scaria is scared of?
SS	For sure. Just that I go ahead and do it anyway. One of my biggest dreams while growing up was riding a motorbike. Even though I told you I was a bookworm, the other side of me was into speed. I’d always wanted to ride a motorbike. In India, we had those kick start bikes, I was never tall enough or strong enough to do that. So, when I turned 43, I decided to go get a learners licence for motorbike and I got a Harley. People called me crazy, some said I was having a mid-life crisis. Whatever! It’s a good question you asked. I wrote down in my book a couple of months back ,’I have finally conquered fear’. In fact, in terms of personal growth I believe that if you ask yourself,  what do you fear the most, and if you did not fear it, then what would you be doing? The answer can give you a lot of insight into what you actually want to do. If you ask that question to yourself and you are  honest with the answer, you could find out a lot about yourself.
CKC	Now I am thinking,’Am I honest with myself?’
SS	Chippy, we owe it to ourselves to be honest. Who else is going to do that? Nobody else. So, we owe it to ourselves to be absolutely honest to ourselves. Growth comes from being honest and asking those questions, what do I fear, if I don’t fear what I would be doing.  Also we need to put an end to making excuses. Stop making excuses by saying I am doing this for a certain person, for kids etc. At work sometimes I feel some women, even though they have so much potential, and have the right attitude, are so much confused between being a mother and working full time, being a mother and not able to spend time with their children vs doing what it takes to make it.  Some women get so confused, conflicted and that’s holding them back. You have to make a call and then stick with it. Sure, you also need to have open conversations, arrangements and agreements with your spouse and children. Growth is a journey everyone goes on together.
CKC	How did motherhood change you?
SS	Life changing and in many, many ways. As I said before, I always wanted to have children. With my first one, however, I suffered from postnatal depression and motherhood was anything but the wonderful, blissful experience books describe. Of course all of that made me feel terribly guilty as well. We were in Wellington that time, it gets very quiet and you get awfully isolated as well. By the time, my baby was six months old, I somehow wanted to get back to work. I was dying to get back to work.  At six months my boy started crèche, and I returned to work. Of course, it was difficult at first, you take your little one to daycare and you feel guilty. One of my colleagues once told me, ‘if you are a working mom, get used to the fact that you are always going to feel guilty.’  We have to make a call. You are always going to feel guilty, because you are not there for their morning teas, afternoon teas and day care parties. You will miss out on those bits, as you don’t have time. Don’t worry about it too much. Don’t let that bother you, just accept it.
CKC	In 2015, you decided to take a break from work for health reasons. Do you recommend taking a break when your body says rest?
SS	Yes. For me, balance is not something I am good with. To be very honest, when I pick up a project, I get very, very focused and I lose track of things. Sometimes I do drive myself into a place where health fails because I put it through too much. I am not good at that balancing act yet. If I get into something, I have to see it through. I do recommend a pause when your body says so – you’ve got to learn to listen to your body.
CKC	What wisdom do you have to share with people who are currently lost or trying to figure it out?
SS	You have heard about people talking about finding your purpose. For me, from my personal experience, choosing your purpose is more apt (inspired by “The Way of the Seal”). Finding your purpose could take you your entire lifetime.  Clarity and commitment in choosing your purpose and to keep working at it, and being open to finding something else on the way and being brave enough to be honest to tell yourself, ‘hey I found this other thing which I think will work much better for me.’ Doesn’t matter who else you are honest with, you have to be very honest with yourself. That’s my personal experience. Everything comes from being honest with yourself. And I always, always follow my internal GPS.
CKC	Sounds interesting. Please can you share in detail.
SS	A few techniques that I picked up at the Women’s Training I completed in New Zealand and via books I have read. I use these principles on a daily basis. Transitioning for maximum efficiency & Power. As women, we are very uncomfortable with the word power. You typically think it’s a man’s space. Power comes from being present in full, you are present in full – mind, heart and spirit. When all of you is present, in a consolidated form, that is power. You can tap into what you have, and not worry about other people’s opinions. You are simply there to do what you need to do, that’s power. Next is transitioning, every time before you take the next step, reflect on where you were, make peace with it before you move into the new, so you actually feel you are ready for the new.  Otherwise it keeps holding you back. I use this technique even in between meetings. I take a couple of deep breaths to kind of center myself again, before going to the next one, otherwise you carry the energy from the previous meeting to the next one and to the next and on and on. So, that’s transitioning.  Choose a purpose Work on it and keep refining it, get really into it and be good at it. Be open. Make a stand. What do you stand for? For example, I am in a leadership position. My personal stand is that I will achieve my objectives in the most inclusive and kind manner that I can. It’s about what’s your bottom line. If it all crashes down, what will you not negotiate? Being very clear about the bottom line.  I am okay with not being liked. Worrying about being liked can take a lot of energy. Lot of women asked me how do you do that? I am nearly 46 and it has taken me time to get here. I was not naturally born like that. Coming from an Indian background, it is ingrained into you, especially women,  to worry about how others see you. And at some point you have to get over that and say, “I’m going to be okay even if I am not liked.” It is important that this is not coming from a place of arrogance. Just that there are things to be done and things to be achieved and just got to focus on the same.   Turning up everyday as me and my fully authentic self. All those other steps help me do that. I am okay with not being liked, I am aware what my bottom line is and what I will not negotiate on, I have a purpose or I have chosen one, and I am being there, being present. Which means I can turn up as I am and I am not pretending to be someone else. I am me, just me.  These are the five principles I use, my internal GPS.
CKC	Much to think about and work towards. One final question. What will you tell your 18 year self?
SS	That’s something I do quite a lot. When I meditate, I make it a point to go back to my  childhood and tell myself, ‘you will be okay. You will make it, you will be fine.’ I say to my younger self, ‘just enjoy where you are at, and you will be okay.’ Now if I look back, and if I had the time to reset, I would try and enjoy my eighteen year old phase a lot more rather than think about ‘what’s next, what’s next!’  All throughout, each of my life’s phases, childhood, finishing school, college, getting married and then moving continents, each of those phases when I look back, there was so much anxiety around what was next! So now if I could reset the clock, I would say to my younger self, ‘just chill where you are at and enjoy it and the next bit will come. You are going to be fine’. I would tell myself that.
CKC	Wow…that’s a very positive note to end our conversation. It’s late over there, I have taken a lot of time from you and am glad you did this with me.
SS	I do hope this helps someone out there. If we are able to just talk about things and share experiences, it could help someone out there feel not alone.
CKC	I know for sure your journey will inspire and be that hope for that one person who is searching for support, help and guidance.
SS	Let’s hope for that. Fantastic. It was lovely talking to you, feeling very refreshed.

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‘This is it. This is my last time dressing up for another man. The next man who says yes to me, I will marry him. No matter what,’ said ‘A Girl’ to herself. Growing up in India, I have come across several women who have gone through this mortifying phase in their life. ‘Meet the Bride’ is a pre-scheduled event most in their marriageable age go through, arranged by families who are looking for a potential partner for their adult children. At times this episode can be traumatic. This is so common that it is normalised in our society and many people say, ‘none of those who came to see you will ever remember you. So why do you feel so upset?’ It is not the case, everyone remembers everyone they met, especially most remember those who rejected them for the very many silly and heartbreaking reasons. Much has changed due to the advent of the internet yet no much.

The only tolerable pathway by society standards for marriage, always arranged. I know, I fell in love and to marry the man of my choice was quite a task. Trust me. And arranged in the ’90s and even today, it means dolling up to be eye candy for about twenty minutes in front of ‘A Man’ and his entourage. Oh! They are ‘A Man’s’ support, who are there especially to access you, grade you and check you out.

‘Why don’t the boy and girl step outside? These are modern times, let them get to know each other’, said an elderly man. ‘A Girl’, by now, has already seen thirty-six men. She stepped outside to the verandah and No. 37 followed her, she was cold, disheartened, unenthusiastic, and knew what the outcome would be. ‘If this person also rejects me, I will for sure remain a spinster, a burden to my siblings and family, a lifelong sob story for all’, said ‘A Girl’ to herself. One cannot blame her for feeling this way because she has served tea, answered questions from every entourage before, and did get to know all 36 men in this same verandah. And all said, ‘we will let you know.’ 

‘A Girl’ knows, ‘It’s my dignity I am letting you play with. My self-respect.’ The waiting game is on. Day 1, no response. Day 2, no response, Day 5, no response. With a heavy heart ‘A Girl’s’ mother will push her father to make the call to ‘A Man’s’ family and seek their response. ‘Oh! We thought we called you. We have been busy seeing so many girls, we must have missed calling you. And our boy, he prefers a much fairer girl. Your girl is beautiful, she will find someone soon.’ ‘A girl’ after her fifth rejection experience, stopped expecting, so as usual, she did not foresee any other response from No.37. This time no one from her family was bothered, they too had given up.  

A cousin of a cousin called, ‘the boy liked our girl. They want to know what our answer is.’ ‘A Girl’ without a second thought said, ‘yes. It’s a yes. I will marry him.’ Her mother immediately said, ‘but he is very short, shorter than you. To that, ‘a Girl’ said, ‘maybe he is in the same boat as me. I am fed up with hearing from every other person the reason for rejecting me, ’my dark-skin. I want to marry him and we shall never discuss his height further.’  He was not just short, he was inches shorter than her. Within a few months, the marriage happened, ‘kullan & karumbi,’ (the shortie & the blackie) that was the nickname given to them by their family members. ‘A Girl’ survived it all, it’s now twenty-two years and she is now the mother of two beautiful kids, a strong and supportive wife, and a working woman. We will catch up with her later. 

I am sure I would have also been rejected for my colour and weight. I never had to go through such an ordeal. I am not sure how I would have coped in her situation. But ‘COLOUR’ has always been the central part of my growing up too. You introduce your sisters and the first question all ask, ‘Are they your real sisters?’ Are you seriously asking me that? I always felt the cringe every time someone told me, ‘Oh you are this person’s daughter. You are so dark. Your mother is so fair.’ And my father is not. Dah! Why do people just feel so comfortable commenting on a person’s complexion? What gives them the audacity to be so spiteful? 

Recently read a post that shared the story of a girl’s struggle growing up being labeled, darkie and her struggles dealing with colour discrimination right from school to workspace and the difficulty finding a groom due to her dark complexion. The comment section was full of support except the comments were by all means wrong. One read, ‘she was a confident person. I am so happy that a man has agreed to marry her despite her colour. I am happy that finally she is getting married,’ another, ‘she is so lucky that the guy agreed to marry her, he has such a good heart.’ What !!!

We are conditioned at a tender age to believe ‘dark is NOT beautiful’. You are born into a society that accepts you only if you have fairer skin, a lighter complexion, and pale lips. When I was a baby my mother used to scoop the cream from the milk, mix it with powdered red sandalwood or turmeric and apply it on my face to make my face lighter. I know. Yes, it happened. She meant well. ‘Times were different’, we said then and ‘times are different’, we are still maintaining it now. Even though my parents never once said anything about my colour, it caused them anxiety. On the other hand, my relatives, cousins, and a few friends have always enjoyed commenting on my back, ‘how dark she is and how sad it is that she is not as beautiful as her sisters’. It was painful. It took away my confidence and it was hard to stand tall and not show your real feeling. I have seen how differently my sisters were treated and how I was treated, it always bothered me. It confused me then and it still does. 

During my childhood, because of how I was treated, it was instilled in me that having a lighter complexion is beautiful and bleaching your skin is the only option to look brighter. In India, our advertisements stipulated we need to use fairness cream to look smart and fairer so you will get selected for an interview. Your promotion depends on your brighter, fairer skin. Your marriage happens when you have fair skin. So, we were all conditioned to question our very own existence. 

My first facial was when I was seventeen. Those times, it was, ‘we can make you fair, bleach before facial. We can bleach your hands and feet and shoulders and make you brighter.’ The usual saying within the beauty parlours now, ‘it’s just to remove your tan and the glow happens only if you bleach your face’. Earlier I used to believe it and that 10 to 15 minutes the bleach is lathered on your face, it’s the worst sensation, ‘a small price to pay to look fair’, said my beautician. I stopped bleaching my face when I turned twenty-six. I am comfortable with my skin, content with my colour, with myself and I have accepted myself for who I am. So no matter what anyone says about my skin tone it does not bother me. I have learned to ignore and not be affected by it. But if someone denies me a seat at the table because of my colour, I will not accept that. That’s a different story altogether. 

Did ‘a Girl’ who married her No.37 have a happy ending? ‘I am not sure if I would have said yes if it was not for that scary feeling that I had at that time. I thought I would end up alone. Rejection after rejection took away my dignity. I felt like an object. My worry was I will be a burden for my family and siblings. My husband is extremely fair but short. If he were taller, I am sure he would also have rejected me. I know that for sure because my mother-in-law always reminds me ‘he would have gotten a much fairer girl than you but he was short and we could not demand’ I am happy but I am not. If I had the confidence I have now, I would never be worried about being single. I know now, I could have made it but I did not know then.’ said ‘A Girl’. 

One might think this colour discrimination will end with ‘A Girl’ in her family at least. No!!! You thought wrong. Unfortunately, it’s a cycle. Her kids, one is fair as their father and the second, dark like their mother. The fairer child is treated well within the family, and the darker child has so much anxiety, lack of confidence due to the constant bullying within the family. Our society has got a lot to answer but where do we start? Is there any way this can change? 

We live in a time where calling ‘hey, you idiot’, ‘not you dumbo’, ‘you retarded’, ‘you good for nothing’ are thought to be normal. Especially with children. Some say it’s just fun. I have seen and heard some folks call their kids, ‘hey darkie, pass the salt, at home and in front of others very casually. They feel the child has no feeling, ‘my child is strong, it doesn’t bother them.’ They don’t think for a second that the child is putting on a brave face but inside they are struggling. Next time, your child will be called the same word you called by another person and the name will stick on. You as a parent should know better. It’s not too late, make a change within your own four walls and maybe we can see a change. Educate yourself and make life easier for your loved ones first. People start the conversation at home.

The only alternative is to speak up, call out and constantly share stories about our experiences from our lives so we create awareness amongst our kin and friends about our struggles about matters of colour. It matters. If someone says, ‘you are beautiful even though you are dark,’ call them out. Tell them what they are stating is unacceptable and discriminatory. Just call people out and question their intention. When you see people treating one person better than the other based on their colour, call them out and root them out of your life, (if possible) if they continue doing so. Yes, it sounds simple. Because it is that easy. All we have to do is take one small step, raise our voice and speak up. If you have the platform to voice your opinion, raise awareness. Stand up for what’s right. Keep your stories coming, and never stop.